Problem is that at every level that there is a raft of inexperience in the team. Do it on the cheap is our motto. The two you mentioned are our senior pros in midfield. Not kids but hardly experienced seasoned pros. And of that in his development up until the last year (half way through TMs last season) Buckley has played in most positions on the pitch. Hardly going to help him master a position, nor will the lack of a seasoned vet in cm alongside them to help them learn. Then there's the squad fillers. Vale should be nowhere near the squad full stop, Garrett should be getting weekly games on loan, our lack of defenders is always covered by youth - and especially at cb we see how important experience is. Add to the illogicality we add Morton and develop him even though he's not ours nor streets ahead in quality to what we have, we let youth assets go on the cheap (Raya) or free (Lenihan). My word we can't even do cheap right! It was once said you can't win anything with kids, Alan Hansen on manure. Thing was there was still a ton of quality and experience around them. Sure they were talented but everything around then was set up to succeed. We throw the kids in with no support wharsoever.

The thumpings are a concern. The much bigger concern is we haven't got a point when going behind. Look regular thrashings shouldn't happen. But they will happen from time to time. It's inconceivable to not get a single point from going behind. That shows an incredible lack of character from the team and tactical awareness from the manager. I mean if it's game over every time we go behind, that's only going to see us leave the league one way eventually, and it's not promotion.

What channel is it on? Going to try finding a pub that will play 1 screen of that over the Manchester derby.

Now that is sad as I asked nicely and it might help you understand my point of view. Only the other post of yours I quoted shows you know exactly what impact and influence the owner and past have on today. In fact it's part of your defence of Lampard. Not sure it's possible to recognise it for one club but not the other. So well done for sucking me in. At least that answered my prior question of whether it was deliberate or not. Helpful to know for the future. Stumped if I know how that's entertainment or enjoyable for you..

Could you answer my analogy question please? The one about the Warehouse.

Thanks. I'm not sure if it's willfully missing my points or lack of understanding. I'd be very disappointed if it was the former, what would be the point on going on a mb in that case?

My points are so far missed it's like a Reid thunderbolt sailing into the upper tier of the Blackburn End! I've shown how there is a ton of evidence that it won't work for these guys based on the past. I've also explained why I think that said past evidence is relevant to the new lot. So I think it's a bit of a pisstake to imply I'm being unreasonable in wanting results too soon (which wasn't even my point at all.) Last attempt: Imagine you work at a warehouse. The CEO of the company is crap and keeps not giving the Warehouse manager no budget year after year, delays on signing off on training and new equipment and the warehouse isn't in a good state. The company has several warehouse managers and at several points even adds in a site supervisor as a middle guy between the CEO and warehouse manager. Throughout it all the warehouse is a mess and does a really shoddy job with getting deliveries out on time. Now a new warehouse manager is appointed. However the same CEO is in charge, with the same culture and overarching ways of working. Do you think it's likely the new warehouse manager will succeed? Do you think it's ok for people to be sceptical that he'll do well?

With Potter I have some sympathy as he: a) has done well in his precious job. b) has a horrible injury list (Yes it's Chelsea and he still has a ton of talent but even so it's a long list and losing your no 1 keeper, your summer marquee signing and a raft of others is not ideal.) C) the owner is acting like a kid playing football manager. I get the impression that Potter isn't too involved in signings as it's such a scattergun approach and counter to what he has done previously. That can't help him build a team and style whatsoever. I get it's still a situation most managers would love to be in - all that talent and the owner signing a ton of players - and that's a strong argument against him. It's quite a flip side! But I do think said context perhaps warrants Potter a bit more time, albeit not irrespective of results for the rest of the season.

Ok, let's try this one more time! What I'm asking is what evidence is there that it will be different under this new manager/DOF when: - Venkys, who call the shots, are still in charge. - They - Venkys - have messed up constantly over 12 years through their rule. - We have had plenty of new managers and management structures (e.g. Paul Senior) and scouting nextworks (e.g. TMs European scouting network) which have all failed. - Waggot is still here. - And in fact we were in a very similar position the previous year which we botched. why, given all this evidence, is it all good and rosey now? Because the manager and DoF are new? But we have had new structures and personel before, so that doesn't really wash. Are Venkys suddenly going to run the club differently? Unlikely after 12 years. There's no evidence that this year is going to go any differently. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it. oh and before you say it optimistic outlook isn't evidence. In fact with Rovers it's often contrary to that! So it's a bit unfair to say people have no right to be worried given the last 12 years of issues.

The point is the past is also the present. As it has been for the last 12 years... You are right it's not all on them, the Stooges they've appointed are culpable too. (not selling players and getting money for them Vs going on frees for example.) As for the owners we seem slow on getting round FFP compared with other clubs, for example, then there's the no money given to replace Armstrong, not to mention last January. You can't have not knowing as an argument for you and against my point. It cuts both ways. Also no one ever said get the wrong signings. And what's your hope based on? The evidence shows them screwing up time after time. I may as well hope to play for Rovers at nearly 40 if evidence isn't a criteria. Thats some PR and a half! A disappointment? Think disaster or poor would be a better way of putting it. They have both been terrible. Also Morton has nowhere near the impact Hyam does on the team. Not same category of signing. It's also worth pointing out are we really happy with a guy who's getting towards missing half our games? And as for Szmodics he's had as many good games as bad. Not sure he's the best value for money. Personally I think he will come good but at present it's hard to qualify him as a raging success. Especially given what we paid and our budget. That's not my job. I'm not a scout and in the know who is available and the like. What I think we should sign is a striker and hard man midfielder at the very least.

Sorry mate that's nonsense.There's a common denominator over the last 12 years messing us about. To ignore it is daft. For all the new stuff we have - and boy don't they sound similar to the old - there's a ton the same. Most significantly the owners who call the shots. And of course we've seen the owners year after year under invest in this team. We've seen contracts run down before. We've had new recruitment strategies and teams before. So all the evidence shows that given the constants and the previous new starts - we still are weak in this area. It's naive to think everything has changed. It's counter to all the evidence. Fair enough that's quite subjective. However I think it would be a stretch to call it a strong window. Two utter clangers, and one of the good players missing 40 percent of the games, and only Hyam vastly improving the first 11. That's not a great window. Again I refer to the points above! Given the history of the club no wonder people are worried and disappointed we aren't getting bodies through the door. Yes the result at the end of the window matter more however good additions early on could give us an edge in a few games. And I think we can clock how it's gone as a window before the end of the season.b

Call me a grumpy badger if you like but I generally think evidence should influence my opinion! And it's not as if we haven't had 12 years of misrule, an incongruous transfer policy (increase value yet contracts running down) and the fact we arsed up near the exact situation last year - not to mention imo an average summer transfer window -- to make us sceptical it will right this year. All of those things bar the transfer window are absolute facts. So I struggle to see how people can't see why others aren't relaxed about the window.

If it's the one I'm thinking of j think he has struggled at Wigan at this level and also at Rangers. If I'm thinking of the wrong one ignore me! Mind you what we need is the right players. Kuqi was never Prem standard but worked in our team. Gestede hasn't really done much other than at Ewood. If you get the right fit then the players can make the step up if the role suits them. Unsure if that's the case here though.

He did! Thanks for the correction. Loan with option to buy I think. Either way the point stands that he hardly spent his way out of trouble.

Agree with the second sentence. Totally the case. And can't remember the last good decision they made. First isn't correct though - a good manager doesn't need a ton of signings to stay up. Big Sam only added in Diouf to keep us up (and had some injury issues too as I recall.) Hughes did get 3 players in but 2 were for peanuts and the third (Savage) was injured for a good part of the run in. Neither needed to rely on signings to stay up.

Yes I read this, and it all seems rather crazy. The more I read on it the more it seems the senior Reynas are a lot of trouble. Domestic violence is totally wrong and I deplore it. This two issues however seem to me to be separate. I mean their son was badly behaved at the tournament. His fault he didn't get in the team and maybe they should have looked closer to home as to the issue he wasn't in the team. Revealing this now is just an act of spite rather than any moral justification for it. And it's probably - given the severity of the issue - cost the coach his career. It's unpleasant and vindictive. Mind you Reyna jr won't have an easy time either. It's drawn more attention both to his poor attitude and the baggage that comes with his interfering parents. What a circus.

Blimey! That is a swap I would do! Dembele is decent, and Wallace was excellent at Millwall and a good swap in itself. Aside from the eggs being in more baskets that's improving the squad. Mare to miss out on this alone. Mind you with Giles whacked onto the right I dare say they would have been rendered pointless by Dembele being in net and Wallace at centre back...

😂 Now 99, that's not fair as it doesn't provide any context to what Lampard has achieved. It makes no reference to the fact he had a ton of Chelsea's promising youth at Derby or that Chelsea won the CL the season he was sacked. He just sounds pretty average according to this.

I don't think my previous post conveyed how weak I think the PL is this year. Look at the bottom 7. Southampton - after years of doing nothing with average players and managers it's no surprise they are bottom. Wolves - seem to have lost their way. Without getting the manager right and some Portuguese talent through their connections (harder when slipping down the league) they're going to struggle. Forest - impressive to be promoted but you can't whack in that many players and expect success. Like with QPR before mass change never does well. West Ham - surprising given the talent they have but maybe Moyes, like so many managers at so many clubs, has overstayed his welcome and gone stale. Everton - years of mismanagement has left a weak squad and they've a manager who struggles to be mediocre. No surprise they are struggling. Bournmouth - championship level squad and manager. Leeds - living in the shadow of Bielsa-ball which when the novelty has worn off isn't that effective. Leicester - when you see your best players go or continue to age and don't improve the squad you are going to have issues. Picking 3 from that lot to go down is a tough ask. All like they seem to be trying to get relegated. I imagine west ham have the quality to stay up, especially with a freshening in the managerial hottest, l but for the rest? They all should be very nervous.

Having looked at the prem table I was shocked by how poorly so many teams are doing and how many relegation candidates there are. My word what a time to go up. So many of the big clubs struggling, half a dozen teams striving to get relegated. It's a great time to get yourselves established. And shocking how poor the lower half of the prem is.

Looking at the last half dozen games I think our win rate of late is more like 1 in 3. That would see us with 7 wins and short of what's needed. I appreciate that's a bit of an arbitrary place to slice the cake so to speak, 6 games, but it is a worrying niggle I have. What makes it more challenging is there a load of sides with momentum, who it seems will pick up a lot of points. Boro and WBA spring to mind. After that there are a lot of others that are pushing hard too - clubs with good budgets who are inconsistent like Watford and Norwich, as well as some canny teams making the most of their resources like Millwall, PNE and Luton. One positive of late is that we have beaten weaker/out of form teams. So with the fixtures we have over the next few games (Rotherham and Blackpool I think?) we could really give ourselves a boost and ease the pressure for later on in the season.

An excellent summary which I think most would struggle to argue with. Only things I would add are: Brittain being able to play lb in our squad is another plus for him. I always say we can't afford to carry injury prone players and his appearance record is hovering just above making him not worth the money. Like Ayala a club like ours cannot afford numerous players, with long layoffs even for top quality. However as it's hovering above that I'd say it's a good signing, albeit one which was unnecessary if we had treated Nayambe better but that's not on the player. Szmodics I think will be judged in light of how much is spent (by us and other teams) over the next couple of transfer windows. If we don't spend much in Jan or next summer than it looks a poor transfer. Certainly if we say had picked up £6 million for Bereton and Szmodics was a third of that you'd feel it's not been reinvested that well. However he's done ok, shown some promise and from the comments when he signed seems to fit the blueprint. So lots of reasons to be optimistic too. Morton imo is a waste as he's not good enough to really enhance the team so just blocks out own players progression. Hard to measure but I feel the missed opportunity costs with him are going to be huge. Plus we all know we needed a hard man with experience in there. I think when you consider what resources we have available then it looks not that well spent. To have only 2 qualified successes in there is a poor return. A bit of leeway is given for the paper thin squad inherited and the late appointment, but still...

Sorry Chaddy but this simply isn't true. There has never been a player in Rovers history, and I suspect any other club too, where a player has cost a huge amount of the budget, done nothing for 2 seasons, not come good till the 4th, all at the same club. I cannot think of a single example. Often the player is shipped out, sometimes the manager carries the can. Never can I think of someone breaking the bank and taking 4 seasons to come good, and a club in waiting that long. Even if there is a case or two (and I'm pretty certain there aren't) the fact it's not commonplace shows it is unusual. And you can't build a case on the exception not the rule.

Blimey. In this league alone we have had Rhodes, Gestede and Graham, and even Armstrong, and yet there's satisfaction at the performance and ability of Hirst. No wonder the club is going backwards.

Some players are. Jason Roberts springs to mind. Made such a pest of himself he was worth another 5-10 goals to the team on top of what he got himself. Wouldn't mind if some of our forwards were of that ilk. Problem is the likes of Hirst and Vale don't score or contribute to others scoring either.