Worst excuse ever along with other teams did better than we thought. Those aren't excuses those are the everyday circumstances of the job. I mean what next, an accountant complaining they had to add up numbers? We are so unprofessional it's untrue. How on earth can the everyday occurances of football throw us? We are an utter joke. Waggot is a joke. TM is a joke. Sod off the lot of you, do one. Excuses like this show you are taking the piss and are woefully unable to meet even the most basic of standards. Also was Waggot not challenged on this? Not sure where this quote came from as didn't read that far back (fans forum, LET) but surely his guff should be challenged? Stuffed if I know how they get such a free pass. I hate supporting Rovers these days. It's a circus from top to bottom. Shame you can't just pick a new one cause this lot constantly take the piss and are killing us slowly.

Same! Remember hearing this from primary school upwards. Sure there was always one pillock who shot every time he got the ball regardless of options and needed to be told to look around and think. But overall the encouragement was to not be afraid to have a go. Also there's some pretty shocking keepers out there! A B or C shots would trouble the likes of Walton and Leuits and at lower level (non professional) mistakes are common so it always seems to me to be worth a crack if there isn't a better option on.

Good post Gav, made me think. Think it's phraseology. Would certainly concede they could be classed as positive outcomes but that isn't the same as reason to be optimistic. (I know, I know, I used the two interchangeably.) What I was trying to say (badly!) is that there are many things to look forward to, going to games being a key one, but that's not really much room for optimism of how we will do. It's something to look forward to but it doesn't suggest we will do particularly well. We may look forward to going but it doesn't give any cause for optimism or hope that we aren't a shambles on or off the pitch. In fact I would say no matter how much enthusiasm or lack I have thereof all indicators are it's full steam ahead to destination shambles. As for not all about promotion and playoffs I'm a little bit torn by that comment. On one hand I hope it is. I mean that's the aim of any game - to win. How realistic it is is perhaps a different matter but the aim of a football club is to be as successful as possible. So in some ways it is aiming to doing this, that's what it is all about, winning games and getting promotion. As Barnsley showed getting to the playoffs, as Brentford's slow build showed - it can and should be the target for all clubs to work towards. On the flip side I get that isn't the only measure of success. Under Hughes I didn't expect a Champions League place (we got close though). But we had a talented team, who fought for the shirt and we were well run on and off the pitch. That was a standard I was happy with and would be so again (in a Championship equivalent way.) Thing is Gav, whichever view we take there's no reason for optimism because both are well out of reach. A well run club punching above its weight or promotion chasers - neither look likely under these chancers. So yeah no cause for optimism imo. And for me simply existing is not enough, especially when we are run, and often play, like a shower.

None of which is a reason to be optimistic. Excited to go, yes, but not a reason or evidence that suggests a positive outcome.

I think my other issue is in all this I'd feel a lot better about the situation if TM wasn't in charge. A good manager could make the likes of Rothwell and Gally into useful tools and assets, lowering our recruitment needs significantly. Under TM unless they are really good it often doesn't turn out so well.

I'll be honest I'm not too sure of that team. The defence could be pretty solid but only when (if) Warton comes back from his injury the same player. Plenty don't. At best case scenario we won't be seeing the benefits of this until mid-September earliest. Midfield, I'd be worried about Davenport's fitness. I think Rothwell in a 3 has looked decent and could perhaps fill in there, but again there's a few gambles from Davenport's fitness through to Rothwell/s consistency. Up front there's a lot of pressure on Bereton and Dolan. Both have showed some promise last season but have a long way to go to be consistent in this league. That's a heck of a step up for both of them. So yeah, the team isn't too shabby. But it isn't that strong either. And as you say when you consider it's a squad game, then things get very worrying. Add in TM as manager and it gets even worse.

Any sort of player I would agree with. Don't do it for the sake of it. And certainly not some crock. Haven't we learnt enough from Ayala, Evans etc. to know that it costs us? So yes anyone with a dubious fitness record stay away from. But decent players in positions we need? That's another story. There's no 40 percent sell on fee with them. We get all the benefit. Another benefit of this is there should be someone suitable. Goodness we are short in most positions so the chances of there being someone decent that we would want in a position we need strengthening is likely. The other bonus if it's a permanent transfer is we actually have an asset and we have a bit more consistency to the squad long term. Any money would go on Tony doing Pep or Jurgen a favour. So yeah, player exchange really works for me.

I would take that. They are sucking all the joy out of Rovers one step at.a time. It's death by a thousand cuts at Ewood.

On Armstrong players are the best way to alleviate the sell on fee to the barcodes so I would be very much in favour of players in part exchange. As others have stated however they cannot be crocks - we simply can't afford that.

Brilliant post showing there is no real engagement with any of the concerns other than "you need to be more enthusiastic" which is an entirely seperate matter. Playground stuff really. Only thing I'd add is it is a certainty that not all of the unproven kids we are relying on as squad fillers will come good. It's never happened before even with some promising academy teams. How many ex Rovers youth are playing Championship level now? Again not masses. To assume they will all be adequate is going against the whole of Rovers history. I'd put that question to him myself but am on ignore! But since it's never happened before, I'm pretty certain it won't happen now, and definitely not all in the space of one season. Mind you more worrying than fans' blind optimism is that the club seemingly are ok with this strategy which once again points to their negligence.

Apart from one has more promotions from this league, has seen significant improvements in their club in a much shorter time frame and have international management under their belt. You are right it's not a challenging question but one with an unfavourable answer to TM.

Ignoring the only and things issue, even assuming pedantry, what about all the other things people have issue with?

Great post, excellent summary that I have tweaked slightly - and not to make the situation better either. My only consolation is that there's always a team who surprises you who you think will struggle and everything points to that but does better than expected. Hopefully that can be us because on paper we look weak.

These why shouldn't TM be involved in the recruitment/scouting/coaching set up doesn't half irritate me. The answer is obvious that he is incompetent and corrupt. In such an instance a manager having involvement is a real issue. Its like saying why shouldn't I be able to drive to work? And in principle it's fine, it's right and natural that I do. However if I can't see the road or am a drunk driver the natural and obvious thing to do changes. I shouldn't be anywhere near a car. Same with a manager in this situation too (although the natural and obvious thing to do would be to pot him as well.)

Can't see what you are bothered about. Just because 2 are often injured, one has only had a couple of games there and one is inconsistent - can't see what the fear is at all. I mean I hope Buckley and Davenport can make it there but it is wildly optimistic to assume they will. They could and there's some encouraging signs but that's all they have been - signs not consistent performances there. That makes it a real gamble assuming that they can be relied upon.

Absolute horse manure. Sacking Sam appointing Kean Listening to agents over Williams & co Letting agents lose on our transfers Overseeing/allowing the destruction of the fan base including quashing all protests Agnew and Shaw Sheeby Singh 5 managers in a year Financial irresponsibility in the championship Cutting off the funds drastically to Bowyer and Coyle making it near impossible for them. Appointing Bowyer over an experienced man Appointing Coyle No communication with fans Firing Coyle too late Having a stupid set up where the manager picks his boss. Letting Ewood Park corrode. Yeah great owners these. Definitely the worst. They have allowed 10 years of people to rip off our club. Can't see how anyone says that's acceptable.

The reason it's a "frigging problem" is that known is the only quality that seems to matter. Competence seems irrelevant. I don't know your business but I assume you only employ those you know who have a certain level of competence. To do otherwise is a conflict of interest and unethical. Given how crap and overly awarded his associates are it easily falls into the conflict of interest category. They perform poorly but are paid handsomely. As for appointing your own boss/CEO that's a whole other level of problematic and conflict of interest. Not sure I like the language you're using - cess pit, the most rational move on. Patronising at best. Ignoring that I think I have two issues with your question here. Firstly why refer back to these arguments regarding TM - perhaps because there has been so many appointments that appear dodgy? Pears, Ayala, Venus and Waggott to name a few, so if it happens with frequency it's likely to happen again. Why wouldn't fans be cautious in such circumstances? As for best to move on even though TM isn't up to it. Why? I mean if a problem needs fixing pretending it isn't there isn't going to solve anything. Giving it a clean slate doesn't make the problem go away. I mean if my car makes a horrible noise and has the check engine light on me moving on is not going to solve the problems! Likewise with TM the issues won't go away or be fixed by giving him a clean slate. I've also got real issues about how this lowers standards too. If there's no consequences for poor performances then it basically legitimises them and standards drop lower. We see that with TM anyway under certain elements of the fanbase but for goodness sake let's have some standards at our club. Saying last season (and the last few before that) don't matter is basically legitimising failure.

One thing TM always does is exceed expectations on how low he will go and how bad he is. To suggest we are better than Belgium is rediculously dishonest and deluded. For a guy who complains about comparisons with 95 (false ones at that) he doesn't half make some more outrageous ones himself. And let them decide their own fitness. Lunatics running the asylum, conflict of interest and gross negligence all immediately spring to mind. Glad the standards are so high.

That's the worry isn't it? That's what happened for Coyle. It didn't help he got no money to spend either but so many of the transfers were last minute it almost was a write off of the first month of the season.

Oh come on now. None of them have even cemented a place in the team. How on earth can we be relying on them to get us promoted. Where's the evidence for this? I mean Ayala getting on the pitch would be a bonus. Travis has never had a huge amount of goals in him. Optimism with no evidence to support it. I think we can take an educated guess on the finances based on the evidence of the last few years. Stuffed if I know why all evidence is ignored these days for blind optimism.

Well obviously in a football sense! Am in no way comparing it to say the Pandemic, loss of loved ones or the many injustices around the world. That would be silly. But then I don't think I, or anyone being negative, is doing so. Obviously the word is not being used in its clinical medical context. I've known a couple of people who have had depression and that is grim. But again, I think anyone could see from the context, no one was thinking it was clinical depression inducing. Or maybe you mean you don't think it's depressing in a football sense which renders the whole of the above moot. Perhaps you mean it would have to get a lot worse to class as depressing. In that case I'd say this slow death under Venkys is as bad as it gets and what it lacks in spectacular at the moment it makes up for in being unable to change the course.

Yes not sure how people can think this if TM couldn't manage it with a better squad how on earth will he do it with a weaker one.

Indeed, but it is a depressive situation is it not? I mean from squad to management to owners it all looks appalling, which seems pretty depressing to me!

It's interesting that some people are getting annoyed that others are negative about the upcoming season. I'd suggest on a message board you are going to hear opinions that you don't like. It goes with the territory. I'm astounded though that they are surprised at the negativity. We have a manager out of his depth who specialises in making things worse, we have a paper thin squad reliant on crocks and kids, most of our better players are out of contract within the next year or so and we have the worse owners in football history. Gee, I cannot think why anyone might be a tad worried about the upcoming season.