Maybe that was our bad 45? Not sure we can get much worse. Fortunately QPR are shit as well.

Well, yeah, the chances of us getting promoted as it stands are basically zero anyway. I agree that, much like after the L1 promotion, it would seem crazy not to offer him a new contract. However, I'm certain we'd stand no chance of staying up if he was kept on so on a personal level I would still want him gone once we had worked out what black magic he had used to get us promoted in the first place.

From what I've seen from our first 11 in some games this season we could be a match for anyone in the division - but to make that true consistently you'd obviously need a better manager than Mowbray, and have far greater squad depth to account for injuries. I don't think the current squad as a whole is enough for a top six position. The only way we have a chance is if our first eleven stay fit throughout and the chances of that happening are slim to none. Hence why my optimistic expectation is mid table, and my pessimistic expectation being a relegation fight. Mowbray could do nothing at this point to make me want him to stay. Even if we got promoted he wouldn't be the man to manage us in the PL. Much like WBA we'd be straight back down, and brutally so. As far as I'm concerned he must leave no matter what - even if I have no trust in Venky's to appoint anybody better.

I believe our first eleven, injury and suspension free, has enough about them to get into a playoff position under the right manager. Mowbray obviously isn't that manager, and even a better one would have issues with our current squad depth, as the chances of going the whole season without players going missing for periods of time is practically zero. Optimistically I expect another mid-table finish under the current management and coaching staff, as it is the upper limit of what they are capable of. Pessimistically I think a couple of injuries to key players such as BBD and Ayala could torpedo our season and drag us into a relegation fight. God help us if Kaminski is out for any period of time. Once Mowbray (hopefully) leaves at the end of the season we'll see how much of a mess he's left us in and what damage the new manager will be tasked with repairing from our fabled journey. Chances are, with the current owners in situ, it will be another dud who at best can keep us in mid-table and at worst will relegate us again.

The excuse for this always seems to be "we were going to sign Maja but he failed a medical, so what can you do?" - ignoring the fact that the club's solution to this issue was apparently to hedge its bets on a player who was known to be injured and must have had a high likelihood of failing the medical anyway, making it a pointless and dare I say desperate attempt to fix things at the last minute. Not too dissimilar to when we waited until the last day of the window to ship out Mulgrew and bring in a similarly injury-prone Cunningham who proceeded to pick up a serious injury soon after joining. It's not 'bad luck', it's just pathetically poor decisions being made by a broken structure.

His post match comments had at least half a dozen excuses, ranging from kicking towards the away end in the second half to the team being inexperienced. He even got his excuses for midweek in early by saying we don't have enough time to prepare for two matches so soon after the international break! Obviously the flaw in his logic being that it's the same for every team, therefore we are at no more of a disadvantage than anybody else.

People said the same during 2 wins in 17, and at the end of the season. I'm resigned to the fact that at the very least he's seeing out his contract at this point. This will be just another season of hopeless tedium. I think the only way Mowbray goes is sustained fan pressure (not going to happen, too many fans who think we're lucky just to be in the Championship nowadays) or if we end up in the relegation mire by January/February time, which always seems possible but never actually happens under this manager as the see-saw inevitably tips upwards for a few games to release the pressure just when things are looking grim.

Another clown show from Mowbray and his one-half wonders.

It's a difficult one as everyone will have their own definition. I don't think it's a situation where it's black and white. As long as we're dealing in facts then there are multiple ways to define whether the transfer worked out. At least, that's my view on this topic. If somebody says it's paid off because he's scoring goals and doing well this season then OK, if somebody else says it hasn't paid off because for £7m they expect a player to come straight into the team and contribute then I'd also say that's fair enough. I don't agree with using resale as criteria at the moment because that resale hasn't happened yet. If it does and he goes for much more than we paid for him then I'd accept that as a reason to say it worked out too, even if I personally had different criteria. I'm completely on board with arguing the merits of the transfer working out or not, based on everyone's opinions, I just don't think it needs to be proven that one person is right and everybody else is wrong. It's an interesting question to ponder, with a lot of valid answers.

If we sell BBD for a big profit, and it does look likely at the moment, I'd tend to agree. Personally I'd also look at what the end goal was from buying the player. Using JR as an example, even though his goals likely kept us in the division, I don't think he was bought for that purpose. We spent £8m for a striker that would provide the goals to fire us to promotion. It wasn't his fault and it wasn't his sole purchase that meant we failed, but as far as the reason we bought him, it didn't work. As far as BBD is concerned, I believe we likely purchased him with development and resale for profit in mind. On that basis alone, if we do sell him for profit, then the transfer was a success. Applying other metrics to it, which from a fan's perspective is understandable, can change that viewpoint.

Armstrong helped us get out of League 1, so I don't think it's fair to say that. I think an argument could be made for Rhodes not working out as despite his goals we didn't even get into the playoffs and with his wages/bonuses taken into account did we even make a profit on him in the end? As I have said a few times now, though, it's all about how you view it. Just because I see promotion as one of the key factors in judging whether JR worked out as a transfer doesn't mean you have to or even should feel the same way. If you don't then that's fine.

Again, for me it's a matter of perception. I can understand the view of people who say it has paid off, but I can also understand why somebody would say it hasn't. Totally depends on the criteria you're applying. It certainly paid off for Brereton as an individual, and it should work out for Mowbray if we sell him for a good price and he can brag about the profits made. On the other hand if Mowbray brought him in as part of the goal of getting promoted then that likely isn't going to work out regardless of how many goals BBD scores this season or what we sell him for. Whilst I agree promotion and reinvestment of fee is out of Brereton's hands, as fans we should still consider those elements as to whether his transfer ultimately paid off for the club and has made us stronger in the long term. If it doesn't then the transfer worked out for Brereton, but not necessarily Blackburn Rovers.

It ultimately comes down to how you define 'paid off'. In terms of becoming a strong part of our team this season, yes. In terms of resale for a higher value, not yet but a good chance of that happening. In terms of helping us get promoted, probably not even if he is sold for profit at the end. In terms of helping us avoid relegation this season there is an argument for that, as I'm not sure who would step up to replace his goals if he wasn't here. It just depends on how you define it which is going to be different for everyone.

I don't disagree with you, there will always be a contingent of fans who do stupid things like boo our own players and sing racist songs - although fortunately the latter doesn't happen as often as it used to. I'm sure there were some comments aimed at BB as he came off, but that's football. Even at 19 the lad already had a lot of experience in the men's game and I'm sure he'd hardened up enough to ignore that. Frankly he wouldn't be in the position he's in now if he was that weak. He's obviously got thick skin and determination. What bothers me is a rumour with no foundation being used to smear our fanbase, spread by our own fans. Maybe Bad Boy did go to the game, and maybe that is how he remembers it, but I don't believe that is actually what happened. There's no way he walked off the pitch in tears, and I highly doubt he was crying on the bench either. You surely have to accept if either of those things had happened it would have been reported on? There is no way media outlets would ignore a player being abused to the point where he was crying. There's no way Mowbray wouldn't have been asked about it. I just don't buy it as a realistic scenario.

When it comes to accusing our own fans of reducing one of our own players to tears you're damn right I want more evidence. The fact you don't speaks volumes.

I'm weird in that I generally like to see proof of something before I believe what a random stranger on a forum says. Odd behaviour, I know! But you obviously know Bad Boy well to be able to vouch for him, so fair enough. I do find it odd that Brereton coming off the pitch in tears from the abuse of Rovers fans was never reported, never spoken about by the club and never mentioned beyond Twitter, but hey, somebody on a forum says it happened so it must be true.

Because there's no proof anywhere that it's true. People lie for all sorts of reasons, especially if it helps an argument they're making. Brereton coming off to muttered frustration in the crowd and looking irritated afterwards became Brereton being hounded off the pitch by bloodthirsty Rovers fans and reduced to tears on the bench. Don't you think if the latter were true it would have been reported somewhere, or Mowbray would have been asked about it after the match? It's a bullshit rumour made up on twitter by the usual supporters who for whatever reason love causing conflict within the fanbase.

As far as TM being 'right' in spending £7m on BBD, it comes down to two factors. Either his presence and goals fire us to promotion, or we sell him for a decent profit. If either of those come to pass then yes, the purchase can be called a success. Obviously leaving Brereton's contract to run down is putting us into an awkward position as far as his sale value goes, and it seems TM is unable to build a team here that he can get promoted. So, let's wait and see what happens. The ultimate aim should be to build a team that can achieve promotion, but at the same time the reality for clubs in our position is that we need to be able to sell some assets for much more than we brought them in for. If that happens with BBD then there is an argument that it was, in the end, a smart signing.

If we're being honest, if BBD gets an offer from a club in a better position than us, willing to pay more wages and with a higher chance of winning something he'd be crazy not to take that opportunity. I don't think the lad needs an agent to tell him that. It's clear he's willing to step outside his comfort zone by the fact he went and played for Chile despite not knowing the language or any of his team mates. With his international allegiance in mind a move to Spain would probably be the next logical step. At this point it really is just a case of whether we sell him in January or the summer as far as I can see. I think hopes of him signing a new contract here, beyond the 12 month trigger, are highly likely to be dashed.

It's really sad to see Newcastle's gleeful reaction to becoming a propaganda arm of the Saudi regime. I get that they are sick to death of Mike Ashley, and they are about to get a huge boost in the coffers, but for me the price for their potential success is too great. I can genuinely say that as awful as Venky's tenure has been, I'd still rather stick with them than the club be owned in all but name by Saudi Arabia. If we were owned by the likes of them I'm not sure any success that followed would really mean anything to me. I guess it depends on how much congnitive dissonance you can muster as a fan.

Liar is maybe a bit strong but he's certainly been economical with the truth and comes out with a lot of BS, eg. "I don't look at the league table". Yeah, sure. I don't think he was necessarily lying when he said "defenders are coming" - I'm sure at the time he believed that - but when they didn't turn up he just hand waved it away and didn't give any real explanation as to why it didn't happen. My biggest problem with Mowbray isn't lying, it's the complete lack of accountability for everything. It would be nice for him to just hold his hands up every so often and say "yeah, I got that one wrong, sorry".

Yep, somebody got Goldberg to say Venky's Out as well, although he probably had no idea what is was all about!

Good effort. Reminds me of the Kean Out days when it was appearing everywhere.

As has been said, since they're offering cash out they won't be able to void the bet at this point. The fact they're already offering 50% cash out in October on those odds suggests they believe there's a good chance BBD will hit 20 by the end of the season. With that said if I'd put money down and had the opportunity to take £5k-10k now I'd find it hard to say no. It's a bonkers risk/reward ratio. I would imagine SkyBet will conduct some kind of internal review to work out how this happened. I didn't check but I'm guessing they were the only bookie offering odds like that on BBD, or maybe any Championship striker.

Reminds me of when they said Derek Shaw had "gone rogue" during the Henning Berg payoff debacle, throwing him under the bus and then proceeding to employ him for another 3 years.