I'm sure I remember us being favourites or second favourites for Euro 2020, and our odds would hardly have been set as rank outsiders for WC 2018 or WC 2022 either. There's no need to talk ourselves down. We're up there in odds for every tournament because we have excellent players across the pitch, on balance equal if not more so than the vast majority of our opponents. Southgate staying on wouldn't bother me too much, but it should also be recognised that few managers who win nothing at international level at top nations stay on for more than three tournaments.

Open play only! I suppose you could argue the penalty decision came from open play... but then all set pieces do.

If you mean when Maguire's effort scraped the outside of the post... sure. Ultimately France gifted us two penalties. You can't ask for much more than that. Still, no shame in going out to France. It is what it is. We still just don't have the mentality to go all the way.

I remember one superb save from Lloris, what were the others?

Once again England choke when it really matters. Still can't beat a nation of similar stature. Kane's horrendous penalty will be a defining moment of his international career, unfortunately, whilst Southgate currently slots into the long line of managers who couldn't get England over the line when it really mattered. He's had three big chances at WC 2018, Euro 2020 and WC 2022 to take that step and it just hasn't happened. He'll probably have another crack at the next Euros and World Cup, but he still hasn't been able to solve the problem of us bottling it against teams on par with us in terms of talent and reputation. France weren't even that good tonight, yet we rarely threatened them from open play. Morocco will give them a game. A Morocco/Croatia final would be quite appropriate considering the below average performances of most of the big nations/favourites in this tournament.

Wow. Totally lost his nerve.

Got to be another penalty.

That's really disappointing. As soon as France put any pressure on at all we completely fall apart defensively. For all the focus on Mbappe, he hasn't really been a factor tonight.

Incredible achievement for Morocco. Whichever of us and France goes through tonight, a semi final against the Moroccans will be very tough.

Honestly, taking our performances so far this season into account, and assuming it doesn't improve much, 12th would be a very good position to finish in.

As will many others tbf. We're still 3rd.... We're still 4th.... We're still 5th.... We're still 6th.... Only a point off 6th... Only two points off 6th... Only three points off 6th... Couple of wins and we're right back in the mix... Don't think the collapse will be as bad as last season, but we'll finish some way off 6th by the end of the season. That much is obvious from our performances, regardless of where we currently sit in the league.

I wonder if we'll hear an apology from JDT today? He should have given one after our no-show against Burnley, he needs to give one after also allowing us to be humiliated 4-1 at home by fucking Preston.

Remember when we were going to use the WC break to drill the players in how to play JDT's style? If this is it we're in for a fucking miserable few months.

Feels like the result against Burnley could be the start of a nasty downward spiral. Considering how utterly abject we've been under JDT in well over half of the games he's managed us it's somewhat inevitable this would happen eventually. Just a shame it had to start with Burnley and Preston specifically.

They quite literally played about 17 of the 120 minutes, and that was good old route one football. The rest of the match, including extra time, they did absolutely nothing. No clear game plan, no chances created, no tempo, no tackling (unless you count repeated fouls, in which case sure), nada. They made Spain look exciting in comparison.

Glad Argentina went through in the end. Only one team genuinely tried to win tonight and it wasn't the Dutch. Their first 83 minutes were shamefully lacklustre and they did nothing in extra time either, playing for penalties as if they were minnows. They didn't deserve to go any further.

Mid-2000s Bolton era tactics getting the Dutch back into the game. You love to see it.

Unbelievable.

LVG taking a page out of the Allardyce playbook with Van Dijk up front.

The Dutch played this match like they literally could not care less. One of the worst performances of the tournament.

What is the Netherlands' plan here exactly? Pass the ball around pointlessly until the full time whistle goes? 20 minutes to go, 1-0 down and they're playing like they're 4-0 up. Bizarre.

Wow. Brazil undone by their own complacency, thinking they'd won it after scoring. Horrific defending for Croatia's equaliser and you never want to go to the lottery of penalties. No dancing tonight.

Spain have been incredibly boring to watch since they first started this tiki-taka stuff in 2008. At the time it was successful so you can't blame them for doing so, but watching them play was, for me at least, 95% yawn inducing and 5% very impressive. It wasn't worth watching an hour and a half for brief flashes of brilliance, I could just watch the highlights for that. Nowadays teams have adapted to that style and worked out how to nullify it - Spain either need to evolve or accept they're back to where they were in the 90s, a largely irrelevent team who have potential but never get anywhere.

I'm not convinced Argentina have really turned it around. Their win against Australia was pretty laboured and otherwise they've lost to Saudi Arabia, scraped past Mexico and beat an abysmal Poland. Their match against the Netherlands will show whether they really have turned a corner, imo, but I'm expecting they'll lose unless Messi rolls back the years.

Yep, pretty much. This was an improvement on WC 2018 for them and with better luck they'd have been in the last 16 taking on Morocco or Croatia, with every chance of ending up in the quarters at the very least. It didn't happen for them this time, but sometimes that's football. The German media (and other media) are trying to conflate WC 2018 and WC 2022 into the same failure for Germany, when in fact there's significant differences between how they went out four years ago and how they went out this time around.