We should never have lost to Forest. A drab 0-0 is understandable but to lose that game late on in the manner we did encapsulates the weak, soft, easy to beat side to Rovers.

Probably right yes. Personally I'd have sacked him last season and I've seen little to persuade me otherwise since. But if we are looking in isolation at this season and ignoring previous seasons then November international break represents an ideal time to take action to salvage the season. * Not that anything will happen, just what I think should if the club wants to get anywhere.

I want him to make us promotion material. I couldn't care less if we are attractive to watch or as dull as dishwater. This is the Championship and we are of limited resources in it. We aren't in a position to be worried about style or entertaining people. Results are the priority. I fully agree Nyambe should be full back. Unfortunately it seems there are issues there with Mowbray and I fully expect him to be off for nothing at the end of the season to a club where he will thrive. I disagree that it is exciting to watch. I enjoyed the victories over Derby and Coventry as much as anyone but I get absolutely no pleasure from seeing us hammer a team one week and then follow that up with a hammering ourselves, especially when we are opened up with such ease. I would much prefer consistency in positive results and crap performances than decent performances lurching from one extreme to the other. All successful sides are built from the back. We aren't. The manager has already set the bar at mid table for the season with his public comments of 'challenging' for the top 6 e.g. being mid-table and in with a shout, which 6-7 other clubs will do. We 'can' be in the top six as I believe our squad is good enough to get there. I just don't think we've got the right manager, coaching or mentality to do it. You need to absolutely hate losing and develop an approach of giving nothing away. Looking at the manager and players I just don't think we have the nasty, ruthless, consistent streak to get there.

I'd give him until the international break. Swansea, Middlesbrough, QPR. By then we will be a quarter through the season. 11 games. If we don't get a couple of wins from them or if we lose two or more of them then we are at the sort of stage where a serious club would be taking action. E.g. if we reach 11 games and only have 10, 11, 12, 13 points on the board then that is basically 1 point per game and normally barely enough to survive. Not good enough. Probably fortunate this season with Wycombe being so bad and Wednesday starting on minus 12.

Mowbray's methods will not be successful in terms of promotion. On occasion we will blow teams away when playing well and with a fair wind in our favour, but on at least as many occasions we will be caught out and punished for it. As above, the proven mastermind in the Championship is doing it again at Middlesbrough. 7 unbeaten now and clear of us. Anyone expect us to go 7 unbeaten anytime soon? How has he done that? Through making them hard to break down and hard to score against and go from there. Hanging on in there until the 70th and 80th minute at 0-0 then nicking games. It doesn't require 60-70% possession, it doesn't require 20+ attempts on goal, it doesn't require the Watford and Reading managers heaping praise on us, it doesn't even require a 20+ a season goalscorer. It is the tried and tested method and it works time after time, because even when struggling you have the basics right and don't lose games easily or cheaply, which is what we have done at Bournemouth, Forest and last night. Even when struggling you can nick games late on or grind out bore draws which keep the points ticking over and develop good habits of not losing games. None of that here and never will be under this manager. He can't do it but doesn't even really want to because he thinks that sort of approach is beneath him. For someone who spent his playing days as a CB at Middlesbrough and Ipswich and has spent all but one season of his entire managerial career in the lower divisions or Scotland that is strange. It is also noticeable how everywhere he goes he always has a good relationship with fans because most people see what he is trying, and failing, to achieve. Many people will accept and be happy with win one, lose one, draw one if we are scoring goals, creating chances and walloping a few along the way. But it is inconsistent and will not result in promotion. The club need to decide if they are happy with that. In a normal world with supposedly owners eager to get promoted you'd expect not but I get the impression that everyone is more than happy with how things are whilst losing tens of millions of pounds for it.

I can see now how this one is going to go. Armstrong hitting 20+ goals as we limp along to a bottom half finish. He will then attract big bids which will internally vindicate Mowbray's management and earn him brownie points in India. Armstrong then sold and the never ending journey continues as we replace him with someone on the cheap and it takes time to adjust to a new way of playing or it was always going to be difficult to adapt without his goals. The rest of the division know we have quality in the ranks. Just a big shame and opportunity missed that despite this the manager still can't or won't find a way of getting the most out of it.

Conceding 4 goals at home is unacceptable. No amount of excuses gets around that. Even if we had drawn 4-4 it would have been unacceptable to concede 4. Most managers presiding over such a things would be embarrassed and feeling the heat. But not Mowbray. All part of the 'journey'. Imagine Allardyce having that sort of attitude after being hit for 4 at home. He'd have had players pinned up on the wall in the dressing room.

Good job you aren't running the club then. I've never heard of anything as ridiculous in my life of simply handing the manager the entire season irrespective of results or performances and just 'see where we finish'. About time the people running the club take some responsibility and accountability. 'Oh well here we are we'll see where we end up at the end of it' isn't running a professional football club. Setting proper targets and expecting those to be delivered upon and making changes if they aren't is the way it should work.

I went to bed at half time. I simply couldn't stomach another 45 minutes of it. Checked the score and at 3-2 thought about getting up but didn't. If this is supposed to be exciting to watch I'll stick with Allardyce football and be hard to beat thanks.

I find it all so predictable listening to him. I seriously think we should ditch 'Arte et Labore' and replace with 'always tomorrow, never today' as our club motto. I find it especially frustrating reading comments online about how brilliant Reading are and how they are what we should aim to be. Hang on a minute. We played them at Ewood not 10 games ago after the re-start last season. They were in the bottom half of the table and we put 4 past them. How have they gone from being a nonentity in the bottom half to suddenly being the trailblazers and superior to us? I think we all know the answer to that and it is within the dotted lines in the dugout. One mon has come from a foreign country to work here for the first time only a couple of weeks before the season started and transformed a struggling side beyond recognition into promotion contenders. The other after nearly 4 years in charge can't break the glass ceiling and goes around in circles on his journey.

Sign up for a Sky Bet account and its free on there tonight apparently. Red button also for Sky Sports subscribers All the above just part of the package for those who have paid for a season pass.

Somebody should ask him what the point is in trying to be around the top 6. I keep hearing this as our supposed target and wonder who has decided that. Last time I checked the only guarantee of promotion is first or second. You can guarantee that Warnock, Wilder, Santo, Bielsa weren't going round telling everyone that they wanted to challenge for the top six. Its all about promotion. If Mowbray doesn't have the top two as his aim then he's in the wrong job. Scraping 6th place and then getting walloped in the play offs is no use to me. Can imagine Chris Hughton telling Marinakis at Forest that he's happy to survive this season then try and challenge for the top 6 next year. He wouldn't have got the job doing that.

Thats exactly what I mean by a cavalier approach. You say it yourself - two teams who have spent a lot and have good squads - yet we turn up and attack them and concede 6 goals. Cavalier. It might bear fruit every blue moon but usually will see backsides slapped. Most managers know this and will set out to be hard to break down, and assemble a squad capable of approaching games that way.

You are correct. We've spent less than them. David v Goliath on finances. So presumably you expect no less than a win tomorrow and anything less will be a failure? As we are Goliath to Coventry's David on that front. I don't demand we go to these places and get results. I would prefer a manager that sets us up to be hard to break down at these difficult places rather than just turning up and being wide open at the back and conceding for fun. I'd have had no major issues with the Watford result had we done the business in recent home games but we didn't and it is 1 point from 9 so the pressure builds.

I expect Mowbray will take this one more seriously than most other fixtures and will be going to make a point against his former employers. No pressure on him at places like Bournemouth and Watford. Can turn up with a cavalier approach and get beat and a raft of fans will eagerly point out that we were playing sides who were in a higher league last year. Coventry is a different kettle of fish. No excuses to hand and having been manager there recently I think (or at least hope) he will want to get one over his former employers and will be under pressure if another defeat happens. Score draw is my prediction.

I was impressed with our deadline day business. We arent going anywhere with this manager IMO. I wish it were different and that he would change but I see no evidence of it. Same old hard luck stories. Promotion might be won or lost anywhere. 0 from 6 at Bournemouth and Watford whilst 1 from 6 at home and 0 goals. Infact our couple of victories came against the dross of the division.

Being the "better team" isn't all about how much possession, how many passes and how near you get to the opponents box. Fatal mistake thinking that. There's two sides to every game of football. Scoring goals and keeping it out at the other end. Neither is more important or better than the other. Mowbray thinks he is clever. He clearly thinks a lot about football, enjoys trying to emulate Klopp or be some sort of bargain bucket Guardiola but there's two sides to every coin. He isnt better or more clever than a manager that focuses first on defence and builds from there. It might look better particularly to the neutrals and those who attach importance to such things but it is actually meaningless. It is all about results Already this season a familiar theme has emerged. So called good performances at Bournemouth, Newcastle, Watford yet nothing to show for it. Pats on the back all round because the stats were impressive, loads of possession going nowhere, a few half chances, opposition fans and managers impressed as they collect their 3 points unscathed. Nice guys finish last. I dont want plaudits from others I want us to be hated because then you know you are getting somewhere.

See how many games Forest and Derby put up with it.

Only 6 games in but on PPG heading for at best mid-table. Looking at our upcoming fixtures I'll be surprised if we've more than 14 points after 12 games which is borderline relegation form over a full season. May be helped by the Wednesday deduction and Wycombe standards. I agree this season is and probably will be our best chance at promotion in a long time. We're already looking like a massive turnover again next summer. I disagree individual errors were solely to blame tonight. This comes back to the manager and coaching staff not setting us up correctly as a defensive unit. It's happened too often to be blamed on errors. He can't or won't change though so that's up to him.

My view of the game was it was a typical Rovers-Mowbray effort. Having experienced this sort of thing now for over 2 years at this level it is tiring and predictable. I had absolutely no belief or expectation we would get anything out of the game from the moment we went 1-0 down. At 2-0 it was game over and most of us knew it, deep down. The shed load of possession and nice play after that was in part afforded to us by Watford who had probably watched similar efforts from us v Cardiff and Forest and knew they could let us do it with little end product. All the possession and pressure and yet other than the penalty save and shot from outside the area Foster didn't have much to worry about in the second half. Hand on heart time - if we had made it back to 2-2 or 3-3 does anyone genuinely believe we'd have come away with a point or all 3? I don't. I reckon it is more likely they'd have applied some pressure and we'd have crumbled at the first sign of it - see Bournemouth away when we contrived to lose despite twice doing the hard part and fighting back. If your idea of enjoyment is watching us play pretty football, plenty of possession, passes, being easy on the eye, a few talented lads having a right good go then fine, enjoy away. We will get loads of plaudits in the press and from rival clubs because it goes down well with the purists who like to tune in and watch sides 'have a go'. We are also a team full of nice men. A nice bloke in the dugout who won't upset anyone, a team in his image of nice boys who all get on together and do things the "right way". Won't get promoted that way though. Ever. My idea of enjoyment is watching us get points on the board whatever way necessary, being a well drilled hard to break down and beat unit, and show some semblance of a strategy and some adaptability in our approach to deal with the opposition - just a shame that we seem no nearer to such an approach. I'd have enjoyed tonight 100x more if we had turned up, put 10 men behind the ball and ground out a 0-0 or 0-1 win playing with no ambition other than to ensure we didn't concede. That might sound crazy to some but crazy to me is turning up at a side with Watford's quality and defensive record and thinking we are going to outscore them. They've had issues scoring goals - so start from there, build from a clean sheet and frustrating them. Instead we let them in with their first venture forward with acres of room to run into, followed by defensive clangers for their 2nd and 3rd. Mowbray thinks he is above all that sort of thing though so it won't change. So instead we will lurch from one extreme to the other with no consistency. I'm tired of the ludicrous suggestion that we only conceded 3 times due to individual errors. The better teams don't make errors like that. They are coached out of it.

Where's Gallagher? Another injury? Need more attacking options in reserve than what we have.

intel correct

One of the best headers I have ever seen in the flesh, along with his goal at Brighton the same season

I don't think I've ever witnessed a win at Watford. Be nice to change that. When was the last one there?

Sounds like Elliott up top with Armstrong and Brereton. Midfield being Johnson, Evans and Holtby.