JHRover

So after being preached to for the best part of 10 years that we need to use our Category A academy more, use home grown players rather than pay for them from elsewhere, pathways into the first team blah blah blah we spent the whole summer doing the complete and total opposite of that and are now selling our academy graduates to the likes of Derby, Charlton and Peterborough after putting in years of development. It's almost as though we're just making it up as we go along.

But if the club wipes its own face then we get the worst of both worlds IMO. We have a miniscule budget, which is uncompetitive in the modern day Championship, and highly likely to result in relegation at some stage or another from which we will never come back if sustainability is the aim And at the same time of this little to no pressure on the bastards in India to take steps to offload the club. No financial pressure just means they can leave us to rot for longer with zero pressure on them. At least if the club continues to drain them of millions of pounds a year, money they HAVE to find from either sales or their own pockets, this maintains a degree of pressure on them. If they reach a stage where the cupboard of players to sell is bare and they haven't got the ability at the Indian end to shovel the cash in then a default beckons which brings the whole thing crashing down. I see it a bit like when Hitler talked about the Soviet Union - need only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down. The trouble is kicking in the door - the best and probably only way of doing that with this lot is financially - a pressure on them to transfer cash - we have seen first hand that in the last 4 years they have been actively cutting this in any way they can. They are under pressure, clearly, the more this can be maintained the nearer breaking point is.

Everyone, and particularly those who have enjoyed prolonged lucrative employment under them, have labelled the owners as kind, honorable, proud and caring people. I imagine being flown out to India once a year, put up in luxurious accommodation and dined at their palace whilst they say lovely things creates quite the impression to someone used to working in English football. Actions speak louder than words. Takes nothing to talk a good game about your values and principles, but 15 years of destruction proves that these people are not kind, honest, well meaning, they are appalling people who have dismantled a well functioning proud football club and tarnished its standing in the game. No amount of fruit and water on the veranda in Pune changes that.

Good business would have been retaining the squad that got us into the top 6 last season for low cost - simply by offering appropriate new terms to Batth, Hyam, Travis, Brittain, Dolan and Tronstad. Good business would be investing from a position of strength whilst things are going well on the pitch and not totally dismantling a good squad for no real reason other than saving on wages and giving Rudy a project to prove himself. End of the day if Derby finish 21st and we finish 22nd then they are laughing all the way and our business has cost the club tens of millions and possibly its existence by sliding into League One. We can say with some confidence that we wouldn't be in relegation trouble had we kept last season's squad intact. Can we say the same now with what business we have done? I don't think so.

It's been said above but Mowbray is an unusual character / bloke in football. He's obviously got a lot of good traits. Pretty much everyone loves him for his man management, his 'arm around the shoulder' approach, his way with people. I imagine players, fans, chairmen absolutely love his approach, sitting around a table chatting about his principles and ideals. You see it from most of the clubs he's managed - he's very popular with fans and players alike and there must be good reason for that. He's probably great to work with because I don't think he will ever rub people up the wrong way or throw his toys out of the pram. He just isn't the sort of bloke for that sort of thing. He most definitely isn't a Warnock or Allardyce sort who would only focus on the team and results, with Mowbray there's an obsession with individuals, development, personalities which I think overrides results and league position. The fact he was able to put up with the Venky freak show for over 5 years tells us something about his personality - both good and bad - as opposed to Lambert/Eustace/JDT who couldn't stomach it for more than a few months before fleeing. The good part is it allowed this club to appear normal for a few years and to plod along as 'stable'. The bad part is that we were never, ever going to get promoted out of this league because he just doesn't and didn't have that burning ruthless desire to do it. These comments show that is still the case. Even when he'd done the hard part and got us into the driving seat for promotion he didn't have what it took to get us over the line.

We've been down this delusional track before. Remember when Mowbray was here? People convincing themselves we were building sustainably, following a plan, working normally. Then we had the Broughton / JDT experiment and that was another occasion of us acting normally and putting in place a structure that would take us somewhere and last. They made sure that lasted all of 12 months before they smashed it to smithereens. We completely changed track under Eustace to a traditional model of bringing in short term relatively cheap options and relying on our established players, we made sure that was abandoned after 8 months by appointing Gestede over the top of him and refusing to extend any contracts. Now we are on to experiment 4 in the space of 4 years. Might work, probably won't because even if it goes well the ownership/regime will either introduce further budget cuts or remove those overseeing it and go down a different path again in the near future. It isn't normal, it isn't healthy, it isn't sustainable. The only thing it is doing is (in theory) cutting losses every year whilst the club is being hollowed out from within with good people being forced out and replaced with nonentities who don't understand the club. On the topic of cost cuts despite all the evidence pointing that way I still wouldn't be surprised to see losses exceed £15 million again, that's the one constant here under Venkys.

Interestingly none from the last 15 years of destruction. I wonder why that might be. Best get used to it because as long as these owners remain memories from 20+ years ago are the best you'll get.

A bit more to add I was told that he hadn't returned to Brockhall in June for pre-season training. I have no reason to question that information given he hasn't been seen on any of the videos/photos from pre-season training. Ismael confirmed after the Accy Stanley friendly that he was 'in the process of leaving' despite not being around since May Valerien Ismael on the future of Blackburn Rovers coach | Lancashire Telegraph The clear suggestion here is that he was being removed because Ismael had decided he didn't want him and that he wanted his own coaching staff. A pretty reasonable thing to want/expect for a new manager (shame Mowbray, JDT and Eustace didn't appear to get such luxuries) but despite that nobody else has been brought in, with Dean Whitehead the only coach brought in since Eustace's gang left, and Damien Johnson/Ben Benson seemingly remain cornerstones of the operation, now onto their 4th manager in just over 3 years. Even if correct I find it odd that the club can't just confirm his departure. It certainly isn't normal for a 2-3 month process of removing a coach surplus to requirements.

But that is mostly, or even entirely, of the club's own choosing, due to well discussed issues with contracts and budgets. So if it is a path we have chosen, why should people get credit or labels of it being a success to finish lower than last season off the back of it?

Would anyone consider anything below 7th this season to be a success? If so, and in view of last season's finish, why?

So devil's advocate mode again - let's suppose that there is some serious foundation to the investigation in India let's say that VLL has been used or is being used for other reasons other than funding the club, some of which might not be above board, ethical or even legal. Should the authorities just turn a blind eye to all that because ultimately they are still paying the bills every month?

That's your opinion based on what Ismael and the club have released. You don't know that as a fact. My opinion is there are two sides to the coin and I'm inclined not to believe what the regime says given their track record. You and nobody else knows that Ismael answered honestly, or more importantly that the information he has been given by others including the lying Venky stooge, is accurate. Nobody knows with certainty other than those directly involved in the mess.

Indeed. They should replace 'fit and proper' with 'do you pay your bills on time?' as the only requirement of an owner these days. If you do that you are fine and free to do whatever you please. If you don't then you are evil.

If we were paying millions for a 27 year old captain of a Championship rival with 200+ games in this league under his belt and no record of fitness issues this place would be jumping for joy.

The club regime controls the narrative with all incoming and outgoing players. Sadly some can't see this and instead leap to the defence of the club regime for being 'truthful' and 'honest' about the situation rather than engaging their brains for a few seconds. Take the Travis example - he hasn't been made available by the club for any sort of press coverage since the players returned to training in June. Unless I've missed it, apologies if I have, there hasn't been a single interview with him, either with in-house media or external media. That in itself tells me something, because there have been a lot of interviews with players and staff and lots of 'fun and games' with players - but no sit down interview. Whether deliberate or not the result of this is that nobody has had chance to ask him about the situation, so of course his version of events isn't going to get any coverage. Naturally the regime would dictate the questions allowed in any interview regardless, just look at their conduct in the Fans Forum meeting, but they haven't even gone that far this summer. They know what they are doing alright and so when Ismael needlessly stacks all the blame for the situation at Travis' door, despite the club admitting already this summer that 'mistakes' were made on contracts in the last 12 months - seemingly contradicting themselves - it is time to ask questions not simply accept it as the gospel truth. As with every sort of situation involving two parties there are probably two accounts / versions of events. I understand a natural temptation by fans to side with the manager/club/directors as it is more comfortable, easier to blame the outgoing party and align with those that remain. Life is rarely so simple and being a fan does not mean just believing in the most palatable scenario because it is easier or more comfortable. It involves asking serious questions and challenging the narrative being set by untrustworthy people.

He'll be getting advice not to bother. Firstly he's still officially a Rovers player, so zero chance he's going to say anything at all until the ink is dry on the deal. Then he'll just crack on with the soundbites for his new club, we'll get a 'statement' on social media about thanks for the memories but I'd be astonished if there was a spilling of the beans on what has really gone on. It just isn't done in football with departing players. I suppose there isn't really any need because there's nothing really to be gained and it's not his problem any more.

The difference is the club haven't had to resort to dirty underhand tactics to get rid of Bucko because he wasn't a cornerstone of the team/captain and probably would have quietly sat on the bench for the next 12 months if necessary. Travis is obviously a different case being actively pursued by rival Championship clubs and first name on the teamsheet last season. The club have had to deploy a hatchet job operation on Travis to paint him as a villain in this sorry saga and, credit where it is due, it has worked with aplomb judging by comments on social media. All it really took was a win at Hull, a couple of unnecessary and unchallenged comments by Ismael in his post-match press conferences and signing another foreign player who sounds exciting but nobody knows anything about and the job is done. Not even a murmur of anger or outrage now about offloading the captain to Derby County less than a week before the window closes. It's impressive but shows we've no chance of ever succeeding against this regime when they are able to control the narrative so easily via the Telegraph and media and so many in the support base just swallow it.

Chaddy should get a job working for the police or as a Judge. He has the ability to determine whether a man is lying or telling the truth based purely on what he says and this being printed in the newspaper. If only the world was so simple.

Cloud cuckoo land

Sometimes I find it hard to believe that any Rovers fan can have confidence in 'building for the future' under this regime. Yes Eustace was for the here and now - he's a Championship manager who on average might get a couple of years to deliver and that's what any manager should be judged on - immediate results and league position. He found a way of delivering play-off form over 7 months on a shoestring after selling Szmodics. Whatever it is we are doing now it will have to be a total masterstroke to eclipse the results and league position Eustace was providing us with. Fortunately for those running the show they aren't employed to get us promoted, and aren't employed based on league position, so provided we can scrape our way to 50 points they will be quite comfortable. We are now embarking on a few years of the gravy train road to nowhere as they 'build' - but they didn't need to build - if they'd have kept what we had we would have been very well placed for promotion last season. How on earth anyone can say this club is building for the future in a summer where we've watched basically the entire spine of the team walk out the door as a direct result of a negligent failed approach to contract renewals baffles me. This is just life in the Venky cycle - someone else gets their foot in the door and oversees another rebuild, and then in a couple of years they'll have left or the owners will have changed track again. It never ends. Yet because we've got a revolving door of players people get giddy and think there's some grand plan or ambition.

made 53 appearances in 4 years at Lorient beyond which he's been loaned out to 3 clubs I've never heard of. Ambitious? £5 million? Really?

Hyam named in the Scotland squad. Good news for Rovers, should add a few quid on to his sale price.

I give it 2 years maximum and then there will be a new manager and new 'Head of Football' only it will be lots of talk about how we need to use the academy more and not rely on loads of foreign signings, that there's too much money going into the academy to not use more players from it. We've seen all this before - lurching from one 'project' to the next every couple of years. Realistically now we're onto our third radically different approach in the space of 3 years. We had the Broughton / JDT approach which was heavily focused on bringing through academy lads and worked as well as anyone could expect with the number that graduated through to the first team. Then with Eustace there was a total shift in the opposite direction to relying on proven experienced players and hardly any academy focus Now with Ismael he talked a good game about the academy when he joined but based on recruitment to date and likely departures it is clear that there's little appetite for bringing through more youngsters or relying on those already senior who have come through the academy. Just making it up as they go along . Either that or a decision has been made already to downgrade the academy and save a couple of million a year there so offloading all academy graduates and adopting a foreign model is the precursor to justifying that.

A bloke who has shelled out tens of thousands on mortgage and credit card repayments over the last 15 years can still be tight. He's simply repaying what he owes / living costs which is what the '£200 million' to Venkys is - the tab - going back a decade and a half - for running costs and negligent mismanagement.

You were publicly stating Ismael should have been sacked after not much more than 3 games into his tenure here last season. You seem to have totally flipped on that view now. The owners of Wrexham have ambition, so they won't be keeping a struggling manager out of gratitude or loyalty, or because he's done a good job up to now. That sort of investment they will want and expect more than a relegation danger so if things don't pick up I bet he will be in trouble. This isn't amateur football where you let someone carry on in the job because its the nice or right thing to do. It's only at places like Rovers (that go nowhere and achieve nothing) where individuals and nice men get to carry on regardless of performance and results.