Mashed Potatoes

That's right. Darwen reached the semi-finals of the FA Cup in 1881 and then were in the old First Division for one season in 1891-92 before they were relegated, got back up for one season in 1893-94 before being relegated again and then left the Football League in 1899. Despite only being in the top flight for two seasons they hold the record for the joint highest defeat in the top flight losing 12-0 to West Brom.

The club's financial position shows that large transfer expenditure cannot be undertaken because we would breach the FFP rules ; that makes promotion very hard indeed for any manager - albeit not impossible - and having a safe pair of hands in charge becomes an attractive proposition

Have a look at Sheffield United's squad and look where their players were at - Oxford, Milton Keynes, Shrewsbury, Portsmouth etc etc

You are right that the sale to Venky's was a disaster - but personally I don't blame the Trust who had proven to be decent owners letting John Williams to get on with things. The problem was that the financial crash in 2008 put some of the Trust businesses in difficulty and they wanted out of the club but found buyers hard to find - some of the names that were put forward either did not seem to have the money or ended up being hunted by Interpol ! In the circumstances wealthy buyers from India looked like a decent bet.

Probably the right thing to do to get him some action and hopefully some confidence - whether the powers that be would sanction a loan that would cause some embarrassment due to the size of his transfer fee is another matter.

According to Kevin Gallacher training sessions were conducted on full size pitches and this left the players shattered in the second half of the season

You could be right about Smallwood although would wages be an issue ? Could it be Bradley Lyons ?

What "decline" pre 2010; we were usually in the top half of the table and frequently in the later stages of cup competitions.

Yes - I had a quick look through the clubs quoted with high losses and Reading were the club I couldn't work out ; if there was a property sale that would explain it

Yes and some of those clubs are or have been in the Premier League since the most recent published numbers so have the boost from that; Derby and Sheffield Wednesday sold their grounds.

Mowbray has us much closer to the play offs than relegation - I don't regard that as failing. With the large losses reported today FFP constraints are going to mean that whoever is manager is not going to be able to spend significantly in the transfer market; I would rather see Mowbray stay in those circumstances as I can't see better managers being attracted to the club. It would be a very hard job indeed for someone inexperienced like Damien Johnson to come in to the club at the moment.

I agree with you that there is a decent chance of staying in this division without massive expenditure; I would rather keep an experienced manager at the helm than throw in someone who has been involved at first team level for less than 6 months.

Lambert has some qualities as a manager but unfortunately is his own worst enemy; these sorts of outbursts are reminiscent of what we had when he was manager with us.

We are only 3 points off the play offs so all is not lost there but otherwise your point stands; worth pointing out that FFP constraints may well mean that the money men can't sanction signings even if they wanted to.

Johnson's promotion to the first team set up was probably made in large part due to his background working with the young players but as he is now involved with the first team I can't see the logic of getting rid of the existing manager to bring in someone who is untested.

Spot on.The immediate significance is that FFP constraints will mean that little or no money can be spent in the transfer market and there is a need to reduce the size of the squad to bring wages down ; it may even be necessary to make a profit in the transfer market which will be that much harder with the club's most valuable asset in Bradley Dack injured until the autumn of next year. Those who constantly demand the firing of the manager need to think long and hard as to what sort of manager would be attracted to the club as things will be for the next couple of years; names like Houghton and Hughes are for the birds, I'm afraid.

Think we've won both games we've played there under Mowbray

From memory there was a horrible home defeat to them in 1999 which led to Kidd's "rubber dinghy men " outburst; I think we all knew that day we were going to go down. I saw us lose at Forest in the mid 1970s in the season they were promoted to the top flight under Clough; they were way better than us .

Those ruled out include us, I'm afraid

Based on what happened with Paul Lambert the more demanding and vocal manager would fail to gel with these owners; I don't think it is a coincidence that the two longer serving managers in Bowyer and Mowbray are more phlegmatic characters.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. I agree with you that no manager should stand still after success - but you and I are supporters not managers and I think we are entitled to feel satisfaction from time to time - if not what's the point of being a supporter ?

What I meant by the restraints of FFP was the suggestion elsewhere on this board that next year losses must be limited to about £4m. At the moment before transfers I think operating losses are in the region of £8m so either the club makes a significant profit on transfers to cover the operating loss or makes large cuts to costs and brings in next to no new players. That, coupled with the toxic reputation of the owners, would I suspect deter the better prospective managers from wanting to join us.

I assume by "fail" you mean not getting us back to the Premier League and based on his record to date that is a fair assessment of what is likely to happen with Tony Mowbray - but it is worth bearing that with the likes of Coyle "fail" will mean relegation which I don't see happening with Mowbray

But what sort of manager will be attracted to the club in Mowbray's place if he realises that FFP constraints will restrict recruitment ? Probably the Owen Coyles of this world.

Last time I had a look at Mowbray's points per game return in this league the numbers were more or less identical to Bowyer and Lambert, which would suggest that there is not a huge amount between them although I think Bowyer had better players to work with - many of whom he had recruited - so probably should have done a better.