Thanks for the advice - cmon you blues!

Sorry if this is posted somewhere already but can anyone confirm how much the return train trip Munich - Salzburg is? Is there a better way of paying for the trip, perhaps in stages (eg S train into the city then purchase a return from there instead of the airport)? Attempts at getting a ticket price via online booking has thrown up 150 euro plus prices... [Hiring a BMW might be a cheaper option!]

<As for watching BRFC in the conference...... sorry, but even if they gave me a fiver to go my life is just too short.> Sorry to rake over old coals, Theno, but the above statement is feeble in extremis.... you've been advised above to go to Old Trafford but surely you could get attain your LUFC dream now at Elland Road (county pride etc). <I have stood on the old, roofless BBE for several hours in rain and even snow to watch Rovers (because of crowd size and need to get there early) That is what it was like years ago, but I and many 1000's more never gave it a thought; it was Saturday afternoon and the Rovers are on. Nothing else mattered, we cant wait to get there. Now ask yourself why? That was obviously by todays standards in comparitive comfort (of a seat with a view, roof over your head, warm concourse with bars, indoor toilets, Tv screens etc etc) a very "poor buy"> Fife Rover - would your shared experiences of supporting BRFC from the middle of the last century onwards have been bettered if they had been in the current Ewood Park from the outset? My loyalty to Rovers was forged not only under the luxury of the cantilevered Blackburn End but under the stars and drizzle of away terraces at Oldham, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Newcastle etc. Today's marketed and sold football 'product' diminishes the game and what it means for supporters in the context of what it was once for those of your generation. That's the fundamental reason why whatever business logic Thenodrog attempts to justify his way forward for BRFC, it will always founder (although 'dunno' replies to Scotty's points raised don't really convince either ) There are three home stands at Ewood Park (5 distinct supporting areas with tiers taken in to account) - why are tickets being sold offering generally the same experience wherever you are in the ground? Top teams' football stadia have followed the same business plan as many pubs over a similar time-frame - standardise the product, follow themes, spoil heritage and break with tradition (ban idiosyncracies and no more tap room, lounge, public bar, games room, dining room etc - open plan room, food and one-size-fits-all ). I know we're concerned with Rovers fans deserting Ewood for the pub but landlords are equally concerned with drinkers deserting pubs for supping at home. With these parallels, the irony is screening live football is seen as the last hope for many pubs these days! TV screening, cost and matchday experience are three inextricably linked factors as far as the current decline in attendance at Ewood Park goes. The fact that many of us are willing to spend more than a fair amount to follow BRFC to Austria in a fortnight just shows how significant the latter factor can be (although it might not be on telly too ).

The only answer is to bring back cup-handed synchro-clapping (500 or so Blackburn Enders) and drown out the drummers... Clapping.....why do folk hardly bother anymore? Perhaps the drummers might hazard a guess....

As I've never followed the Rovers away in Europe (excluding Manx cup games and Celtic ( thanks Gav/Debs/GiddyG)) I'm pretty detemined to get to Salzburg ( been to the city before from Kitzbuhel, not overly impressed as far as potential Euro destinations are concerned). Looking forward to seeing what BRFC have to offer ( are PA Travel no longer arranging things?)....

Are the club obliged to put some tickets on sale that are not part of their travel package? Is Lee suggesting above that Barbara Magee might dish out the 700 available to Rovers fans exclusively as part of an inclusive deal?

I'm playing devil's advocate here but the lapsed fans watching Rovers with half an eye on a foreign channel over a few beers in the pub and having a laugh with mates are actually supporting in a closer fashion to the Blackburn End terracing days of yore. The whole marketing of modern football has changed the experience for these fans - its like comparing the atmosphere at an early Stiff Little Fingers gig with Glyndebourne and wondering why those who used to go and enjoy the former won't pay through the nose to go to the latter! Why one-size-fits-all and the anodyne, sanitised wholely family-friendly? Give young people what they want - check out the front of the V festivals on the telly today (less Keane more Kasabian though)

Not seen the Telegraph but is any distinction made between home and away games? I can't even make the pub tomorrow let alone Fratton Park but think that it is the screening of matches at Ewood that is really the issue Instead of grassing and the big stick, anyone thought that reasoning with the landlords might help? That said, if they're not Rovers fans themselves, what do they care if BRFC suffer financially with potential ticket-buying supporters watching for free in their pub. Being a Riversider until recently, I've always been amazed at the numbers watching live games in the concourses...how many will still do that when they can watch in the same way in a pub? Have Rovers not considered that perhaps some people might like to stand and drink readily alongside their mates while watching football? Perhaps the pub is a better matchday experience for some...one of my favourite Saturday afternoons following the Rovers was one of the Middlesboro postponed home games (weather related) from the eighties in the Bulls Head at Redlam!

Paul <The fans we need are in the pub. Why? I don't know, it's beyond my comprehension. A Rovers fan should be at Ewood. If you are making a genuine protest, as cletus is doing, fair enough, but if you're in the pub downing a gallon of beer, twenty fags and a carry out please don't tell me you're a fan or bleat about prices.> True first sentence; the thing is, it was once feasible for many of those non-attending Rovers fans to get to the game AND down a gallon of beer with twenty fags and not have to chose between the two 'leisure options' ; there were less concerns about a poor atmosphere at Ewood Park in those days too!

<First home game was against Carlisle in December 1966 - I can remember their team coach being snowballed as it made its way down Cravens Brow. First away game against Bury in 1967.> CLB - no reason to doubt your early recollection but, pre M65, why would Carlisle Utd's coach be heading north up the A666 (OK, perhaps they'd stayed at the New Drop or Smithills in Bolton ?!) Bit of a pedantic post, I agree !

<It might be heresy but a nice pint of Moorhouses Pendle Witch pre-match would go down very well.> Talking of heresy, SS, you're from the land of 3Bs ! Been on a few brewery tours including, Tuborg, Carlsberg, Guinness, Matthew Brown, Amstel and Batemans (not Blackburn's Star brewery though) but the one at Feniscowles, with its Doff Cocker, Tacklers Tipple, Knocker Up etc topped the lot. (It is fair to say that Moorhouses is one of Burnley's few redeeming features!)

<Where are the other Mill Hills that means our Mill Hill has to have (lancs) after it?> One is NW London (near Edgeware)

Thwaites ales - what's not to like? Admittedly, pubs in Blackburn and surrounding areas that look after the draught cask and serve it properly are increasingly thin on the ground. It'll just be keg on the Ewood concourses but it's got to be better than the slop bitter served up recently...perhaps they'll look after the supping fans and allow you to buy bitter and lager at the same bar

No drum accompaniment required.... <SMALL TOWN IN EUROPE, WE'RE JUST A SMALL TOWN IN EUROPE...!>

Get yer flags and wigs/hats ready for Sunday... Give 'em an airing in readiness for the league and three cups campaign next season (only 3 months away, after the [yawn] excitement of Sven n Steve's march for the World Cup in Germany)! Who's going be first to excavate the Club v Country thread for debate then? BRFC rule OK!

An excellent analysis and pictorial record by Dillo... Definitely helps allay some of the cynicism, self-doubt and pessimism many Rovers supporters on here tend to display (even/especially when times are good!)

I hate that poxy 'Easy, easy' SoccerAM chant/clap but it was excellent to join in directing it at the Home counties lot in the Darwen End at the end! Seemed to wind 'em up no end - don't know why, even champions can be brought down a peg or two!

Very few under 12s on tonight, with it being a school night and 8pm kick off... Could be a factor, as well as the TV viewing of matches becoming habitual for increasing numbers.... Is it true that since Christmas all but two Rovers games have been screened live? The main thing for the non-attenders to consider though is that they missed out on being a part of a priceless atmosphere in the last ten minutes or so ( and the post-match jubilation )! Super win and Europe here we come!

These days there are two ways that people (note, not necessarily fans) choose to watch football – individually (or in small family/friend circles at home) or communally, at an actual football ground or in a pub, with like-minded strangers. However, with the cultural changes in both football and society over the last ten years or so, we now have a state where ‘armchair’ fans ARE making up an increasing percentage of the crowd so is it any wonder that some types of supporters are now put off going to home games. Supporting is a communal activity…but so is the act of watching a match in the pub (unless it’s the Robert Peel, Walton-le-dale!). Actual home-based armchair viewers are much harder to coax to Ewood than those watching in the pub; it isn’t solely cost that encourages people to watch matches in the pub, what is needed is for the desire of supporters to attend Rovers home matches to be better fostered. To start with, in addition to the Wild Rover from the tannoy, what about the Blackburn End singing ‘Abide with Me’ to TV viewers before every kick off?! The Ewood match day experience needs to be good and different enough to attract people to the ground. A regular rip roaring atmosphere would help draw back those who frequent the satellite TV pubs. In the good old days of 5000 crowds at Ewood, a vocal away following would be taken on, their songs returned or undermined – it was a point of pride. This was seen as important, it was what bred our ‘hardcore’ support and it has been lost in the focus of BRFC and Premiership football in general on the ‘customer’, the family unit and business. What has happened to this local pride? It has been undermined by heaps of cynicism. Kids drop litter and East Lancashire folk flock to the Trafford Centre. Do you shop for your hardware and toys at Mercers or B&Q and Toys r Us? Its all part of the same bogus cult of improved ‘choice’ these days. Like Tesco and McDonalds, the Chelsea and Man Utd product are rammed down the throats of modern football ‘consumers’. Call me an old fogey but, gah, modern life is rubbish! That said, increased leisure options do adversely impact our attendances. Blackburn people now don’t NEED to go to Ewood, they can go shopping, play sport, go to a nearby city or beautiful countryside, to the gym, cinema or even to the pub to watch the match; why are some surprised when they exercise the wrong choice (as we see it)? Even if every local pub with a TV is screening football on Saturday afternoons, there should be only one choice and desire for when there is a game at Ewood – to be there.

No - a couple of hundred empty seats (three thousand plus Roverites?). Ticket sales were very restricted and the hype around the game must've put off many of those able to get a ticket (not many nippers amongst our following). A ridiculous seven hour round trip for a local derby on the official transport - the authorities should just have let the town trashing start early to amuse the cretinous ones amongst the Claret faithful while we arrived...remember the regular thud as missiles clattered into the back of the stand from the Cricket ground behind.... Those McAteer and Bent goals will always be fondly remembered... Great victory but some of the pre-season 'friendlies' from the eighties on the Longside were much more fun (the Valley Blues coach got to the Hapton Inn before 6 o'clock one sunny evening), Tony Finnigan's wondrous strike (suppose I should've started another thread on here really...)

Great day - check the link for the Blackburn End in full throttle with 'No, Nay, Never' ! (active supporting in action, which steward said 'sit down'?) http://www.homesoffootball.co.uk/5282_BLACKBURN_ROVERS.jpg

Did Dunnie's nemesis Kevin Ball - the ex-Clarrot - get a warm reception from the Rovers contingent at the SOL last Saturday?

Sorry for staying off topic, Flopsy <<I think Hughes is a fantastic manager, which worries me because he's probably too good to stay with us in the long term, unless people out there start waking up and smelling the coffee. Although the supporters really don't contribute a huge amount financially, a lack of presence must be soul-destroying when the team's doing so well and putting so much in.>> Jan Jan’s post largely does merit a Grooby until the last sentence lets it down somewhat. If the ‘missing’ support is not overly significant in financial terms, as largely seems accepted now with the average £13 earning/seat/game, what is the real impact of the c. 10k empty blue seats on Mark Hughes and the team? I don’t believe this current Rovers staff, with the very positive qualities acknowledged by all on here, will be undermined by the lack of numbers of home supporters at Ewood Park. The size of our support was almost certainly not a significant factor when they became BRFC employees. The large gaps in the stands would seem to have their greatest impact on the apparent self-esteem of a number of the posters on here; for some, Ewood Park’s lowly status in the attendance statistics tables somehow demeans our actual Premier League position. I don’t agree with this at all. Don't get me wrong, I'd like larger home crowds too but refuse to don the sackcloth and ashes over it. However if by ‘lack of presence’ you are referring to the implications of a passive ‘mural-like’ home crowd then that would be far more damaging. Many home atmospheres across the country are relatively feeble these days. However the responsibility for ensuring we create and maintain a vibrant, vocal and actively Rovers supporting Ewood Park rests with those of us who go to the matches, not those who don’t. Above, Lee suggests that Darwen End lower (Riverside) should be given over to unreserved seating. I previously have felt this should have been introduced (or at least trialled) in the Blackburn End but it appears there are too many season ticket holders in there who are unwilling to change the status quo. It is now too diluted with younger and also more mature fans (is the Foreign Secretary ‘Left side’ or ‘Right side’?) to be the hotbed it was once and all who hold Ewood dear regularly need it to be again. Perhaps more fully reclaiming the Darwen End, in closer proximity to the away support, is the key. <<It seems very few people in Blackburn have realised just what they have in the town. In fact hardly anybody on these boards recognise it>> Philipl The current success of the team is almost unbelievable but folk ARE repeatedly recognizing it, locally and across the footballing world. How does the ‘very few people in Blackburn’ comment square with the oft-repeated statistics of gate levels at approx 20% of the town’s population, ‘top-of-the-league’ of local support by proximity to Ewood of season ticket holders etc. Am I missing something here (or perhaps there is new info regarding ticket buying demographics)?

Not inconvenienced by the switch to Easter Sunday, so my views should be seen in that perspective. I think the club were in a no-win situation. The Hillsborough factor has meant the club (BRFC) and its management has had to be very circumspect in its public responses on this but as the match approaches, it should stress that the cock-up over this fixtures repeated rescheduling has all been of Liverpool's and the Premiership's making. It is important that alienated, inconvenienced Rovers fans are mollified in some way (and that might well mean pointing the finger of blame where it truly belongs). Perhaps transport companies/hotel chains could be prevailed upon to help the many Rovers fans recoup costs incurred by the third switch of this fixture (and gain some goodwill and good publicity at the same time)? Whilst I can understand many Roverites anger over this, there's nothing to be gained by attacking or penalising Rovers as a club - this would be counterproductive and I don't personally believe this is the 'big issue' for BRISA to try and rally diminishing numbers of active troops around. The protests should solely be directed towards Liverpool's Rick Parry whose prevarication, vacillation and inconsistency should be put in the spotlight and 'big club' LFC should learn a bit of humility and decorum, especially when it (and many of its fans) tries so hard to seize every moral high ground.

Paul <Pubs - yes. Illegal broadcasting should be stopped and every outlet showing it should be prosecuted if they persist. It's blatantly illegal and hardly difficult to spot. > The issue with pub screening is not solely one of the illegal satellite broadcasting adversely impacting home gates when shown. Even with legal Sky broadcasts, it is the habit it fosters and the ancillary attractions of the pub. I watched the Spurs game last Sunday in a capacity packed pub in the Revidge/Lammack/Pleckgate area - 70% of the fans in there were standing and many had copious drinks and enjoyed a quality halftime buffet in convivial and lively surroundings (it was superior to that swanky Saab advert that starts in the Mediterranean sports bar when the driver nips out for a spin through the empty streets ). In spite of the result, it was an active shared football supporting experience that rivalled that of attending an actual live game. I suspect most who were there will be down at Ewood for the Villa home game this Saturday but some may be tempted to return and remain in the pub. Another point I take issue with is the JW quote that the ticket office is our cash turnstile. It is not the same as paying on ground entry as the last minute fan has to queue up twice. By their potentially fickle nature, this is likely to put them off (or at least diminish their matchday experience). Convenience is all and to say a speedier service option is 'Conference-like' not 'Premiership' standard is a nonsense.