Hardly, they've injected £16m quid into the Club for an asset they already own because there was no other way round it due to the ludicrous FFP rules!

You and me both den. It's obviously completely incomprehensible to a normal person how you can lose £20 or £30m p.a. without batting an eyelid. Even if they can afford it however you'd think they'd get far more pride and enjoyment out of it had they taken a much closer interest and kept a much tighter rein on things over the years and they'd lost rather less money on us and we had been somewhat more successful. Maybe they've come to that realisation? I think however after 11 years everyone's reaction will be "I'll believe it when I see it". And rightly so.

Speaking entirely personally, whilst it would be nice, communication with the fans would be someway down my list of priorities behind things like bringing in a decent Manager, CEO and Coaching Staff, renovating the stadium, replacing the pitch in full and upgrading the training facilities at Brockhall to state of the art standard where necessary. After eleven tough years we now need actions not words. I don't want to hear mealy mouthed platitudes about how wonderful I am as a supporter and how I can contact them any time with suggestions then nothing changes. Conversely to use an extreme example to prove a point I wouldn't give two hoots if we all woke up one morning to discover the Riverside Stand had been replaced with a shiny new date of the art facility and no- one had known the first thing about it. ** **I'm not aware of any such plans BTW it was a hypothetical example.

Agree with all of that.

You have heard of FFP right?

Probably because the managers of those Clubs haven't run such bloated squads for years and/or have traded sensibly to stay within FFP as opposed to stockpiling more and more players without ever having to sell anyone. Couple of key points here. To all intents and purposes Brockhall is still under Club ownership. If the owners wanted to cash in on it at any point they could just have sold it to an external party at any point before anyway. Secondly the Armstrong money didn't come in in time for the latest round of FFP calculations hence the need for the accounting exercise. I don't deny it has been gross mismanagement (by imo Waggott and Mowbray) and a lack of oversight by the owners that led us to this stage in the first place.

Sorry, this part is absolute rubbish. Of course they're putting money into the Club. Our wage bill alone far outstrips our income. Who do you think pays Ayala £30 k p.w.? Gallagher £20k p.w? Poveda £10k p.w. (apparently) to sit on the bench? Balaji might not have turned up with £16m in crisp £20 notes in a wheelbarrow at the point the accounting exercise with the STC took place but unless you start hearing stories that players haven't been paid for months you can be sure the money has come into the Club at some point. They have also backed the Club up to the limit they are able to under the current FFP rules. Will these rules change in future and would they be able to put more in in future if they wished? Who knows?

Agree with most of your post but the scenario outlined in the second paragraph would be a Civil dispute not a Criminal matter. There's no doubt the Club and therefore the owners had their pants pulled down by various agents but that's your own fault for being gullible, it isn't a Police matter.

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact that just 13 of the 227 votes cast were in favour of Waggott and Mowbray indicates that they are indeed shit? Must say that for a site you consider to be so marginalised, extreme and irrelevant you must nevertheless be an avid reader of it to steam straight in with a "like" as soon as someone contributed a post which aligned with your own view.

I was also reflecting today that the fanbase is fairly divided. I'd categorise it as follows. The first group seems to be one which looks at the League table, says "oh we're seventh this week" and doesn't really pay much attention to or indeed care what's happening down at the Club on a day to day basis. All this group are bothered about is going to the games and supporting the team on the pitch and having a good day out at the game be it home or away. This group are also likely to be of the viewpoint of "what can we expect, we're only a town team" and don't seem overly bothered whether we're successful or not. The second group (which I would belong to) think the last eleven years have been abysmal especially in light of the fact we have some of the wealthiest owners in football. That notwithstanding this group prefer the pragmatic view that even at this stage if we were properly run on the ground we'd have a far greater chance of success with the owners financial backing as well than without it. A proportion of the supporters in this Category will nonetheless have probably dropped off in the last couple of years thanks to the antics of Messrs Mowbray and Waggott. The third group consists of fans who were so alienated by the early years that they feel we will never succeed with Venky's as our owners no matter what. This group are also seemingly unable to accept you can't change the past and won't accept that although it was "criminal" what went on at first In the sense that it shouldn't have been allowed to happen, nothing "criminal" happened at the Club in the sense of being against the law. The majority of this group probably boycotted at a relatively early stage of Venky's ownership after relegation from the Premier League. Will any of the differing factions ever see eye to eye? The only thing I think that will come close to doing it is a period of sustained success on the pitch.

As much as I can't stand Mowbray, I do get a little uncomfortable if anyone refers to his physical appearance and calls him "the gunning idiot" or whatever. However I genuinely think there is very little of that and that the vast majority of the criticism aimed at him relates solely to his performance as manager of the football Club. Why do you think that isn't fair game? "Steadied the ship?" from where I'm stood over his tenure he's got us into so much difficulty with FFP the owners had to give the Club £16m for an asset they already owned to prevent the training facilities being sold for housing and also had to sell sell Armstrong to avoid sanctions being imposed. And despite having the considerable luxury of signing Players for £7m and £5m and being able to run the wage budget at 187% of turnover due to the owners financial support he hasn't even delivered a top 10 finish let alone a genuine tilt at the play offs. He also led us to the third worst sequence of results in our 146 year history last season. And a club record home defeat the other week. Oh and if that wasn't enough, most if not all of our better players look set to leave for either nothing or for considerably less than their true worth. If that's him "steadying the ship" I'd hate to see it when he destabalises it.

Ah sorry.

So we're taking lectures on how Mowbray is being unfairly criticised from someone who's boycotting? Makes sense.

That's good. If that doesn't make people sit up and take notice and crack on, nothing will. Was the banner actually placed there or is it a photoshopped picture?

I don't remember telling you anything of the sort in 2012 and 2015 but if you'd care to be more specific about what I allegedly said to you either on here or via p.m. then I'm prepared to stand corrected. I also think your last paragraph is completely uncalled for but you're entitled to that opinion if that's what you think. What is it you don't believe, that certain people haven't actually held what on the face of it appear to be constructive talks with the Club and we're making it all up or are you saying for a fact they've been lied to?

Hopefully it doesn't involve Tony Mowbray or Steve Waggott though!

You're like the character in the Fast Show who changes his mind every time anyone says something different. You were staunchly pro Mowbray long after most of us had seen through him then you finally changed your mind towards the end of last season and were adamant he had to go, now you seem to be warming to him again.

Give over. I haven't imagined it.

Much as I can't stand Mowbray I think that would be a very different proposition to making it into the top 6 in January.

As I said to Roversfan 99 I'm almost certain it was in the LT and no, I don't have the relevant article to hand.

1st one, it's hope, obviously can't guarantee anything will happen but it's not blind optimism, it's based on specific information. 2nd one, is not an accurate comparison. Venky's do have the money to pay the bills and "avoid the house from being repossessed". They also however pay Waggott and Mowbray a princely sum to ensure the budget is managed in a proper way and we do not fall foul of any relevant regulations. If you were to say they should have kept a much closer eye on it and nipped things in the bud a lot earlier I'd say that was fair comment.

Even if you took his quote literally then the answer is still "no". Even if we were somehow in the top 6 by January (which we aren't now btw) history shows us we won't maintain that in the second half of the season under his stewardship. And that's before you even get on to the financial mess he has got us into and the situation with the out of contract players. So no,it wouldn't be logical to give him a new contract in January.

At best. I'd expect to see significant changes at the end of this season and things moving very much in the right direction by the end of next.

I'd definitely have to take issue with you there.

I'm fairly certain the comments were in the LT. I don't have them to hand.