If Tom Cleverley gets the job of a relegated side with parachute payments, considering he oversaw the worst second half of a season in the Championship, then he has one hell of an agent.

So it says "maybe" ie is purely speculation and opinion. And part of another misguided attempt to have a go at Eustace.

Then we reject the bid for not being what we wanted. But we couldn't because we was desperate. The argument was that we got a poor deal due to the circumstances. The counter argument seems to rely on the idea that even if we weren't so desperate, the deal was likely to not be any more beneficial to us long term, just structured differently.

Cryptic, but even so, makes absolutely no difference to us unfortunately. Might be used to further justify us getting a poor fee though.

How do you know that Dan Ashworth came to numerous games? The move for him was a good one. The move for us wasnt, we were so desperate to get him out the door that rather than waiting until the summer, we subsequently got a lower fee than a club would that wasnt as desperate, that allowed him to develop and showcase his ability for longer and that was willing to wait until the much more active summer window would have done. Theres no way that especially considering the desperation to sell, that the fee could possibly have been as high as it would be had we been in a stronger negotiating position. I am amazed that so many people still try to justify it.

*Venkys.

If its either or, then no deal. His value was only going one way. Our desperation led to a crap deal.

He is a prick to be fair. He was when he played against us for both Shrewsbury and Sheffield United. I doubt his opinion is based on where he is in the England pecking order. Wharton has been a bit sloppy at times on the ball. Munoz has been excellent down the right.

Who are even in the big 6 anymore?

Come on, teams look beyond England under 21 caps. Those squads tend to be dominated by big clubs. It was January. Teams dont tend to spend much in that window. He would have been a more developed player come the summer, proving his talent more. But even if it was only still Palace in for him. They took advantage because we couldnt wait to kick him out of the door. Say 6 months further into his development, in the more active summer market, and crucially assuming we werent desperate and distressed sellers. You genuinely think none of them make a difference?

Its really difficult to compare against other players as you are never comparing like for like. I still dont get this obsession about England under 21 caps. Its better looking at the variables internally to determine whether it was likely that we got a fair value. We was desperate so that massively weakens our negotiating power. We sold as early as we could so that limits his value. We sold in January where teams are far less likely to spend big. Common sense really.

Putting aside the fact that none of it goes into improving the squad so its all made redundant. He would have to be sold for £120m for us to then earn £35m which is a hell of a presumption. But that wouldnt make it a good deal for us because it still assumes that had we got a better initial deal, that we wouldnt have got a sell on. Say if we had waited and sold him for £30m + 15% sell on and he still went for this wishful £120m. Instead of £20m + (15% x £100m profit) which equals £35m, we would have got £30m + (15%? x £90m) so £44.5m. Im always wary of basing a transfer fee on sell ons anyway. Its contingent, you cant bank on it coming in.

His technical ability is I would say overrated. Obviously the best part of his otherwise limited game but certainly hasnt been close to Wharton and our current technically most gifted player is Cantwell. Struggles on the ball in tight spaces.

Again TV broadcasters only interested in their own schedules jostling for the match without a care for fans or traditions.

Say we got £25-30m for Wharton, a sell on is now a common practice so it should have been a bigger fee and a sell on. You cant start adding on sell on proceeds year down the line as if it was part of the main fee. It doesnt make up for the fact that we received a low fee because it should have been a higher fee AND a sell on.

I never get this argument. It would only work if we wouldnt have still negotiated a sell on with a more reasonable fee. Desperate to sell, January window where teams dont tend to spend much, very weak negotiating power, poor fee.

Im sure at one point in the transfer thread you said we needed 10 signings. It seems like youve reigned in your expectations to match what Gestede has said.

Wrexham have always seemed to have a preference towards older players. Obviously they have had a lot of success doing it but I wonder if a similar approach would not necessarily be as effective the higher up you go. They already have the likes of Rodriguez, McLean and Matty James. Cairney is obviously a good player and I suspect would still do a good job at this level but he is 34 and hasnt really played much for a few years. Can understand him dropping down for £50k and im sure he will say its the "challenge."

No I dont think he should be the finished article. Because I dont think that we should be setting targets for academy graduates minutes or that every single graduate that has played has been ready to do so, you are twisting it that I dont want any academy players to ever play or that I expect perfection. In this instance, and factoring in the admittedly limited amount that I have seen him. I saw some potential but also a very raw player that I feel would be best suited to getting some regular game time in League 1 or 2, proving that his body can sustain league football, rather than the occasional cameo here.

Against Blackpool he showed good attributes but also looked very raw. He was quick and powerful driving forward but when he got into dangerous positions he really struggled with knowing what to do next. Defensively he had little to do. Probably could do with another loan just to show he is capable of playing regular football after suffering injuries on his loan this season.

Would it not be easier to just say rather than being evasive and cryptic? I genuinely have not seen and dont know where you have said this. I get why you might think they shouldnt have sacked them, I cant fathom why it would cause you to want them to be relegated.

Why did you wish Watford relegated? A bit beyond merely offering an opinion.

I think to specifically lay out objectives of certain minutes played is the issue though. If it was a case of try and bring graduates through where possible, but its flexible, then theres less risk that we start bringing through kids that arent ready purely to hit the objective. We will have years where there are talented players ready to feature like Wharton and Phillips, but also dry spells. The issue is the likes of Vale, Garrett and even the amount of game time Leonard got were as a result of the inadequacies of the squad and budget, not because they justified those minutes. For example, we wouldnt have needed an objective in place to blood Wharton and Phillips as they were justifiably part of the team/squad.

I get the Selles one less than the Cleverley one. With Watford, they arent in danger of relegation barring something catastrophic but par for them isnt necessarily top 6. Their aim though like many (including us, and we keep fucking this up by forcing talented managers out) should be to get into the top 6 because below the usual 2 or 3 parachute teams that steamroll the division, there is always an opportunity. To get there, your best bet is a really good manager/head coach who gets a team playing beyond the sum of its parts, so its worth gambling if you dont feel the current manager can do that. No idea who their new appointment is or if he fits the bill, but its a fair assumption that Cleverley wasnt capable of overachieving. Their record in the second half of the season was the worst in the division. With Hull, even factoring in debate as to whether they should or shouldnt have sacked Rosenior, perhaps not, but still the main reason for their decline was the massive decline in playing squad. They sold key players including Philogene and Greaves and lost a number of expensive loans last summer including Carvalho and Zaraoury. He managed to keep them up which was the aim (although only by the skin of their teeth). That being said, I cant fathom why anyone who isnt a fan of either would get angry (and potentially wish them to be relegated) as a result. Why would we have such a vested interest. Even before considering the hypocrisy after wanting a managerial change here after a month.

Even if they dont actually use him themselves, the link ensures that similar to the many, many other players that their umbrella of clubs have signed, if he goes on and becomes worth big money theyve got first refusal on the value he will generate in the market.