So much hypocrisy and still none the wiser as to why it would make anyone want them to get relegated.

So Danny, would you like to stay at the club next season? No, I couldnt think of anything worse. If anyone offers any more money or a genuine sense of ambition, im off. Of course he will say he is happy here. And he probably is, plus these days he isnt considered fashionable, in his 30s, not the quickest, not the most elegant and not the best on the ball so other offers might be limited. Very old school but a leader and a proper defender. So I think he will stay, but im not naive enough to think he wouldnt jump at a better offer or by the usual interview spiel.

@chaddyrovers there isnt much to seperate a number of squads in this league, it often takes an above average manager to get a team overachieving. See here, Eustace was doing that before we fucked it up. But what sort of attitude is it to shrug your shoulders and say we are where we are, lets settle? Watford are almost certainly not going to shell out on top players at this level, so their best bet in cracking the top 6 is finding a really good manager. Either way, I still cant get my head around why it angered you to the point where you hope they go down. I know Elliott Jackson said it just before you but I dont get that either.

You would only surely give a manager an extended period of time if they have shown enough to warrant it. We know from experience that slides in form arent necessarily all down to the manager, but he hasnt been sacked after a fraction of a season, hes had a full season and its not been a particularly good one. They clearly have ambitions to make the top 6 in an average league and its not like they just missed out, they finished 14th. Having a bit of ambition and saying we are miles away here, thats a big gap to bridge next season so lets try and change a huge variable (the manager) days after the season has finished to give him the full summer has some sense to it. Even if their squad is deemed mid table standard, and that is subjective, the aim surely is to find someone (like we did before we fucked it up for ourselves) who can get more more from them than the sum of their parts. Cleverley was a young appointment from within, and perhaps has settled things down but is he the man to do that? Results suggest not.

Absolutely. Batth obviously we should renew. Weimann perhaps I would prior to a serious injury especially at his age. Hedges on performance levels in the season just gone? Really?

Looking at it, it seems like its 5 wins in 24 unless there is a cup game in there. But yeah, exactly. The "give him time" brigade always come out in force after a sack in and obviously Watford already have a reputation. But he got a full season and results over a prolonged period were really poor, and finishing 14th was seen as a disappointment. I can understand why you wouldnt deem him worthy of blindly backing him going into another season and agree in particular with your last paragraph.

But that doesnt answer why you have taken so much offence upon a manager and club to which you have no affiliation towards to the extent that you are wishing (or at least echoing Elliott Jackson's wishes) them to be relegated in the immediate aftermath.

Examples? How could I possibly have examples of something that is subjective. I just felt that when he started games he seemed a bit off the pace. But the main issue is the serious injury. At his age and mainly because of the injury, I would let him go. He is a bit different to Hedges and Forshaw in that he did contribute but we should be more ruthless. Its just low standards, we always opt for the easy decision to make do, he will do as a squad player. Then when it comes to having a few in the team at once when injuries hit, performances dip. All makes a mockery of the crap Gestede said about an "exciting" opportunity to refresh the squad.

😂 didnt see that. Elliott tweeted the same thing a couple of minutes prior. Bit rich from him. Wants them relegated to show "you cant run clubs like this" yet has justified at times things that we have done as a club. If you want clubs to be relegated to show the way they are run is terrible, we will be going down. Dont get why people take such personal offence to a club they have no affiliation to sacking a manager. Maybe its so alien to see a decision made (logical or not) rather than lowering standards.

Why do you hope they go down? I understand not agreeing with the decision but why have you taken personal offence on behalf of Cleverley?

Cleverley sacked by Watford. Im sure they will get endless criticism considering the club but it said he has 5 wins in 25 so makes sense. Did Selles improve Hull? Suppose he kept them up but if they dont think that hes shown enough to suggest they will improve then surely now is the time to make the change.

It would make a further mockery of the rubbish Gestede spouted about this summer being an "exciting" opportunity if we just added an extra year on some of these just because its easier. Batth is obviously one we should sign for an extra year. Dolan we have already fucked up that situation so anything now is futile. With Weimann, we need to be ruthless. Obviously has made some good contributions but showed signs of slowing down even before his bad injury. Thank him but dont offer him a deal. Hedges is a non contributor (1 goal and 2 assists really is pathetic) in an area where we need the most work of all. We need a clean sweep and he is an easy one to cull. And Forshaw sums up our lack of depth. When needed to start a few games, the drop off in quality from the starters was too vast to not suffer in terms of performances. People sugar coat it by saying x or y is just a squad player but we repeatedly have issues because the drop off between the first 11 and squad players is too big. This will just continue that.

It just became an unnecessary extra (similar to when we analyse mannerisms on the touchline) when the results were shocking. Theres no need to come up with additional reasons to get angry with him when results are shit, thats reason enough. You seem to have taken particular offence to it though to the point that the results are secondary even to that. If we had won those games it wouldnt be mention. He seems a fairly cold and not particularly personable individual. To be honest I couldnt care less, only about results.

My expectations are that a club that has finished 7th twice and 8th within the last 4 seasons, in a poor league, should be aiming for a top 6 finish. I dont think that will happen though.

We cant just be having a kid with no senior football as immediate back up.

It has become predictable enough to rule out 5th and 6th under these owners.

I dont get why the first part of your judgement is around whether he claps the fans.

Agreed. It would really take something special to get relegated with some of the teams that often float towards the bottom and I dont think people factor that in as much as they should. You think of us last season, PNE this season and Stoke on a number of occasions. An absolute mess yet manage to avoid relegation.

Its irrelevant what people said before the season. We were in the top 6 for a big chunk of the season and fell out, provoked again by how badly we are run as a club. Obviously they deserve praise but I definitely think thats its not controversial to suggest that the biggest reason for us being up there was Eustace. It does come down to standards. Im not going to wax lyrical about a successful season considering the running of the club has caused us to be in the top 6 and fall away at the end due to how terribly we are run. The feeling looking back is frustration and anger, not positivity. And its not a building block because its built on quicksand.

I do wonder in say 10 or 20 years how different still the football calendar will look. Games in the early hours, games hosted in different countries, doesnt bear thinking about.

No, I dont. Youve suggested this before as if the 2 options are to move no games or to have free reign to move the vast majority. There is a middle ground. You are fixated with the European fixtures which make up such a small minority of games moved across the season simply because you dont have TNT sports. Ive suggested before that on weekends where a couple of teams have played on the Thursday and cant play on the Saturday, then make their games the Super Sunday game. Ive also suggested the things that I would propose: - dont move numerous games to the same time. 1 is plenty. So say Friday night, 2 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday and one sometimes on Monday. There are 6 slots, there is no need to move more than 6 of 46 games in a weekend. That way, youve got a televised game in every slot. We dont need for example 8 or 9 to choose from on Saturday dinnertime. - no team can be shown over a certain amount of games per season, or consecutively. Unfair to keep moving games for the same sets of fans week after week. - decide all TV games at the start of the season to allow transport to be arranged. If they miss the odd important game, tough. It wont happen because of greed and disregard towards fans from all concerned. Again, not interested in Spanish TV times. Totally different culture.

It possibly shows how low standards have dropped then. Finishing outside the play offs having been in then for most of the season, with another second half of the season slide, with our talented manager leaving because the club is run so badly and with minimal reason for hopes of building on it because our key players are coming to the end of their contracts. Not sure whats positive about that. I havent in anyway criticised the players in my posts in this thread.

Discarding your low standards regarding a winger who has played the majority of games and contributed one goal and 2 assists. If the options are to sign a 5th centre back and keep Forshaw as immediate cover for midfield, or to not sign a 5th centre back but put the money towards a much better midfielder who can really challenge or at least provide strong cover (and not a huge dip in quality like when Forshaw and Buckley came in during our losing run) and then release Forshaw then surely youd choose the latter. I cant help but feel like again, you are justifying decisions knowing they will be made rather than challenging them if you dont agree.

Having to repeatedly extend early bird offers isnt smart, it shows they repeatedly get it wrong and then panic when they realise. Obviously early birds are an attempt at getting as much in as early as possible, but overall youll get less numbers because people who for whatever reason dont or cant commit so early (the season has literally just finished) wont then willingly pay more than what others have paid for the same product. Take the early bird out of it, I suspect many who have got season tickets would have got them in the early weeks anyway, especially if its to maintain their seats, so I doubt the cash flow is even overly benefitted by it.

Nobody involved in the organisation of matches does, its all about greed and the fans who go to games dont matter.