Me neither, im certainly not suggesting that we should accept being 15th. Teams dont finish in an order exactly based on the quality of their squads which is obviously subjective anyway and perhaps our squad whilst not being top 6 calibre is better than 15th. A very good manager for one is a variable which will be able to get more than average out of your players. The league position suggests that our team is no better than the team we had in our first season in this league, most would disagree but I am not sure it is to be honest. Which of our players would you describe as good, and which of those are top 6 calibre? I just think that it is not just the case that a new manager will come in and suddenly change the fortunes of these players overnight. Part of the reason as to why we need a new manager is because Mowbray has not built a very good squad of players and with many about to go out of contract and our sole asset seemingly being primed for a sale, it is the perfect chance for a change of direction.

Your obsession with Armstrong when the supporting cast are so poor is totally bizarre. He isnt perfect, he isnt clinical and he might not be Premier League quality but he has scored loads in a poor side and without him, wed be in a relegation battle. For what its worth, his unselfishness should have created a goal yesterday but for a tame shot by Rankin Costello from a good position after a poor first touch by him. The fact that his goal record is so competitive with the best in the league and that is who is compared against says enough, even if he is inferior in whatever way. Do we compare Gallagher and Brereton against these or even the likes of Buendia, Sarr, Cantwell, Danjuma, Jed Wallace and Mbuemo, do we compare Rothwell and Holtby to Josh DaSilva, Lerma, Hourihane, Will Hughes, do we compare Lenihan and Ayala to Gibson, Hanley, Jansson, Pinnock, Morrison, I could go on? No because everywhere else, our players are so inferior to the top players in the league.

I am not 100% sure I did, but even so, Boro dont have a top 6 squad either, in fact they have a top 6 level manager perhaps overachieving a tad. And if I did say that, I myself perhaps was fooled slightly at the start, I didnt realise that Ayala was quite so past it, that Douglas was past it etc. Cardiff and Barnsley also have very good managers, neither probably have top 6 squads but I think both of their managers would not swap their squads for ours. Who would we miss if they went? We are disproportionally reliant on our goals coming from Armstrong, so when he isnt firing, they just dont come at all, aside from a brief respite from Dack who undoubtedly has the quality but we will be without again for a while. Defensively its never been addressed and nothing in the midfield to shout home about. Which players will you be genuinely sad if they left tomorrow? Which players are a good manager away from a transformation? The blame does lie with the manager tactically but mainly for assembling a sorry squad of players despite the time and money to do much better.

Why is our bench the envy of many, on the basis of what? There was nothing about a bench of Pears, Evans, Bennett, Branthwaite, Bell, Trybull, Dolan, Gallagher and Buckley for anyone to be envious about. It is a poor league, and I do think a good manager could have us doing better, starting by getting us more organised, but which players are top 6 worthy, never mind automatic promotion pushing?! It would require a top Championship manager and a huge overachievement to have us genuinely in the discussion. That isnt a defence of Mowbray in any way, he has just built a squad swimming in mediocrity(and worse), most of which I would happily see gone ASAP.The goalkeeper is fine, the defence is patched up beyond belief, the midfield is bog standard at best and we have a crippling reliance on Armstrong to score the goals (and when he is fit, which will be a while again now, Dack) with the supporting cast not doing anywhere near their fair share. The Premier League thing is a different debate and even Norwich who top the league will need a massive revamp.

Must go back to this thread I raised earlier, something that becomes more and more clear as the games pass is how poor this squad is that Mowbray has assembled, that he somehow thinks is "asset rich." Looking at the squad yesterday, how many of those 20 are top 6 players? Full of players who if this that and the other happened would apparently be world beaters, based on absolutely nothing. Need to hit the reset button.

You suggested yesterday that we start with Dolan up front! I consistently berate the nonsensical tactics to which Mowbray uses but there isnt a prolific goalscorer waiting in the wings there. He had an average loan spell which is overhyped through nostalgic eyes, and even if we ignore this season, last season and at Birmingham goalscoring was alien to him. Youve picked isolated and random examples, its like me saying that Brereton could become prolific, he scored v Watford and Coventry, im not saying that Gallagher can not score the odd goal. Last season he played quite a lot especially in the first of the season up front and in the main was shite. We do need a new manager obviously (although ideas of one being searched for during the international break are depressingly naive) but the squad needs gutting and starting again. Mowbray has built an imbalanced rabble of rubbish that somehow managed to hoodwink people into thinking it is a top 6 squad under any manager.

Exactly, I think we have a squad desperately lacking in quality that our manager has assembled which for some reason people felt was capable of a top 6 push. Regarding Dolan, I was specifically arguing that he is not a striker which is where you suggested that we played him last night. I do think that due to his commendable enthusiasm and coming from Preston that he is a little overhyped and that there is little of substance but thats not a slight on him, this is his first season in senior football whereas the majority of the rest have had more than enough chances.

Will never be a regular goalscorer at this level. People bang on about that season when he got 11 goals as if that was a poor season for him littered with excuses, he was young, we had Coyle etc but the way we played suited him down to the ground and his goal tally was no more than ok, and since both at Birmingham and here he has got steadily worse. Hes a total donkey, even worse out wide yes but not much use full stop, like the majority of this supposed asset rich squad that Mowbray has built.

If there was a slight chance that Nyambe was going to stay, he would surely be starting as he is miles better than Rankin Costello. Rothwell very much in the "wouldnt bat an eye lid if he left" category, occasional runs but absolutely nothing of substance. Armstrong didnt look fit although Dolan certainly isnt the answer as a striker, offers no goal threat and would probably do well to get past 5 a season from that position. I still think hes just so raw, he seems to think that he needs to do stepovers everytime he gets the ball. In his defence, its his first season. I think the squad is desperately devoid of quality and it needs ripping up in the summer. Not sure there are many I would be sad to see leave.

At least the "numbers" prove we arent a bad side despite no chance worthy of the name.

Absolutely horrendous, what a sorry set of players that Mowbray has assembled. Special mentions to Brereton and Johnson who were particularly bad. Lots of praise for Rothwell but aside from a couple of runs to nowhere, did nothing again. Neither did Holtby. Armstrong doesnt look fit, all of the subs were pointless. Kaminski nearly cost us the point. And not a chance that Rankin Costello is anywhere near as good as Nyambe.

He has not gone more than 4 games this season so defenders will fear him far more than Dolan who for all of his tricks and running has usually nothing at the end of it at this stage in his career, often tricking himself. I think we need more one dimensional players who score 19 goals.

He did work his arse off, but he didnt offer any goal threat. Maybe he could have argued to play on either side other the below par Brereton or the soon departing Elliott, but as a direct question between him and a fit (if he is) Armstrong, its a non context. Buckley I agree.

Not sure Dolan can feel overly aggrieved, never looked like scoring in the last 3 games and isnt a striker, maybe out wide but his last 2 performances didnt make dropping him impossible. Buckley has more of a case I would suggest. Kaminski, Brereton, Lenihan and the most likely departing Armstrong the only 4 who have contracts past June.

This isnt having a go at you but more the general situation as there is little in the way of alternatives but what a depressing team. There is absolutely no goal threat in that team at all. Dolan is not a striker, that experiment needs to be stopped. Also, more importantly at a stage whereby any importance in the season has long gone, Nyambe, Harwood-Bellis, Douglas, Trybull, Elliott and Rothwell are all out of contract at the end of the season. The state of the squad going forward is a major concern.

I wouldnt get your hopes up.

I would suggest picking a team with an eye on next season but I dont think there is scope to really do so, highlighting that Mowbrays comments about the value of the squad are a load of shit. Kaminski obviously will be here next season so is an obvious. None of the full backs will be as things stand, can either right back (well, Rankin Costello isnt even a right back) be convinced to stay? Douglas isnt totally convincing but much better than the inept Bell, but even then he would need to earn a contract. Lenihan has another year, with Ayala still sat in the treatment room no closer to a return we have to put a loanee next to him. In midfield, we have a series of players out of contract, most of which are beyond winning a new deal I would hope. Buckley should be allowed to continue but aside from that, especially with Travis and Davenport both injured, its a patch up job. Armstrong seems too risky to put in and Elliott wont be here next season, and the rest are not up to it. Its a depressing state of play.

The main problem with that post is that we are clearly not League 1 standard as a team. Dolan I am not convinced could be described as "already clearly better than L1" as he is still very raw and lacking substance but it makes prudent sense to tie him down long term and hope his game becomes more complete over time as he is still yet to complete a full professional season.

As others have pointed out, Rhodes is definitely a better finisher, hes as good a finisher as ive seen at this level, to suggest that Armstrong is on par in that criteria is just plain wrong. Pace is a big asset but it is not critical, Harry Kane is not particularly fast and he isnt too bad... Rhodes fizzled out perhaps due to the wrong moves at the wrong times and seems to have lost his confidence although in recent weeks he has scored a few goals and id certainly take him over either of the 12m dollopers even now. Not that I am saying that I would specifically target him. One thing that I am sure of is whether or not Rhodes could have ever made it in the PL, is that both him and Armstrong are 2 under appreciated players that we have had or have, and goalscorers worthy of a top 6 place in squads that are not good enough around them and inadequate managers too.

The problem is that such a belief implies that all players are assets, when that is not the case. Thankfully, Bennett as well as Bell, Mulgrew and a few others are out of contract and will no longer burden the club. For example, Gallagher and Ayala I would consider to be liabilities. If we offered them out for free, I suspect that interest and the willingness to take over their contracts would be still scarce.

It is definitely bordering on an obsession of an agenda. He is greedy and selfish like strikers are supposed to be, perhaps a little too much at times, and the Bristol City game was a particularly bad example of a player frustrated and being far too selfish, but that was ONE stand out occasion, not the first of many or a signal of a game change. I actually think in recent months he has become far less selfish which has led to him being far less effective. There was seemingly a narrative brewing that now he is injured, that the new attack would thrive in his absence, especially post Millwall. Armstrong has missed 4 games and we have scored 3 in those 4 games, 2 of which were from Dack who is now injured again. Between Dolan, Gallagher and Brereton, who all started all 4 games, the sole goal came from one that rebounded off Gallagher's torso. We need Armstrong more than he needs us.

I am ok for spending hours looking through random specially selected clips of players, I will leave that for the people that get paid to do that. I am not interested in the data. Pedantics aside, Crewe fans will have watched him week in week out, on ifollow for the last year and in the flesh prior. That is for me a more reasonable judgement than Rovers fans or neutral fans watching random highlights/pre selected video clips or making conclusions based on random data. My point was that I would like to think that data is only used to whittle down to a shortlist, I would like to think that our scouting network have seen him play numerous times to conclude that he would be a good signing.

It might not be full of rubbish but it is just a (very enjoyable and addictive) computer game. And Mowbrays time should have been over a while ago, but he has done a good job overall and is not a total idiot.

They arent going to say at a meeting like this that Mowbray is hanging on by a finger nail or that he would be replaced in the summer. Mind you, I still think that Mowbray will be here well into next year In his last 20 appearance, he has 8 goals.

With Hughes, I feel like he wouldnt have got mention was it not for his previous connections.