I dont thinking spending much money would be an option full stop. But we have to sign a centre back, just playing more including converted CBs will only end badly. Until we are robust we will never meet our targets.

I dont need stats and data. He has played CB a few times in the past that I have seen with my eyes and he has looked uncomfortable there. He can be right back in a defence and if he is better defensively than going forward, good!

We need to bring in a centre back, not one that can stroll out like Rio Ferdinand necessarily, but one who can help keep clean sheets. Evidence is there that you can pick up Championship defenders for cheap or indeed for free at times if you look hard enough. What I cant fathom out is how you arent seeing bringing in CBs as critical. We only have one competent one! We have a younger one who has done well on loan but the question mark is he can he play at Championship level, a bog standard good League 1 player (who usually plays at LB) and a full back who cant head a ball. I think you are under the illusion that if we played 3 CBs it could make up for a lack of quality but it doesnt work like that. Not seen much of Moore at Bristol City or Blackpool but if hes 3m plus I suspect we can forget that one anyway. That being said, 2 of my previous examples were Curtis Nelson and Patrick Bauer, 2 players signed from League 1, and 2 proper defenders. It might be a job for the supposed European scouting network, or assuming thats all hot air, it most likely will be reliant on loans. The 2 CBs that stand out on frees are Ayala, who I doubt we could attract/afford the wages of and is injury prone but is a top Championship defender, and Lockyer at Charlton who I have seen for Wales too and seemed solid enough, but hes been in a side at the bottom letting in goals. The frustration is we could now have Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Bauer and if he had stayed fit only had to make Cunninghams deal permanent this summer to give us a solid defence. We have to fill 3 positions now.

I doubt we will be spending that sort of money on anyone. But you would be happy going in to a season with Lenihan, Williams, Wharton and Nyambe (at CB!) as our centre back options so long as we play 3 of them at any one time?

We know that Derrick Williams isnt capable of being a top 6/half Championship defender, that part we do know.

Not necessarily the player in question, but why do you think that a defender of 3m or under at Championship level means bang average? Patrick Bauer was a free agent. Ajayi was around 2m and helped West Brom go up. Ethan Pinnock cost around 3m from Barnsley and has been right up there in terms of defenders in the division. Tobias Fegueiredo cost up to 2m from abroad. Shaun Hutchinson was picked up by Millwall on a free a few years ago. Michael Morrison was picked up by Reading on a free. Liam Cooper was a minimal fee who has been there for ages. Curtis Nelson was a freebie from Oxford last summer, has been outstanding. All of these players were in defences that conceded less goals than we did. We need to lose this idea that we need to spend massive money to build a capable defence. We are already at an advantage in that 2 of our defence (and our keeper before he was sold) are academy graduates. We also need to lose this notion that we need a rolls royce of a centre back, the priority has to be to build a defence that keeps the ball out of the net more, any other things are very much of secondary importance. I also still dont understand your theory that our best option is to just play more centre backs, as if that would compensate for quality.

Do we need to cover a player who hasnt played a minute of League football all season?

If his main priority when signing defenders isnt to concede less goals, then we can forget about progression anyway.

Surely results are all that matters though? I do think we struggle v the lower teams but I definitely do not think we play "much better, attractive, attacking and potent football" against the top teams. Certainly not potent, and often quite defensive.and pragmatic, Brentford at home being the perfect example. But ultimately results wise that is all that is important, and we arent particularly good against the top teams either. I am not sure that Cardiff particularly try and play football, they are quite pragmatic but effectively so. They play actual wingers too.

Did we play 3 at the back (or 3atb with its fancy new acronym) v Hull at home? I dont think we did. We definitely did at home to Millwall. Williams scored a screamer but we looked really laboured until the hour mark, when we took off Adarabioyo, went back to 4 at the back and then really dominated the last half hour and got a second goal. Its not the sort of formation you can keep changing, you need to really stick at it. I dont think it suits us at all, nor do I think Nyambe is a competent centre back, I would agree with @Richard Oakley

Its easy saying that but he is possibly our biggest asset at the moment. Should a team make a serious bid, like any team in this league it is nigh on impossible to stop him moving on. It is ok saying give him a long term contract but if I was in his position, with my name very much on the up, I wouldnt be in a rush to sign a long term deal. It makes more sense to hold off and see who comes in for him. The main difference for Armstrong has been playing in a more central role, that has been the main reason for his up turn in form. For the 2 years prior to Dacks injury, Armstrong spent most of his time wide, with Graham up front in the main. In theory, Dack playing off Armstrong in a side that is moving away from playing direct could work. Whether it will, we dont know. Problem being, Mowbrays solution will probably be Armstrong wide and Dack as a false 9, or something equally needlessly complicated.

Adarabioyo is very difficult to replace but moreso because of his technical ability, and the priority is conceding less goals, not playing out from the back. He wasnt a bad defender either of course but there is nothing wrong with getting in the type of player in which you turn your nose up to, players whose first priority is to defend. I dont think he is a realistic signing but someone like Ayala would be a better defender than Adarabioyo and help us probably concede less, even though he lacks the footballing ability of Adarabioyo. I dont understand why you seem to think that an extra centre back automatically means a tighter defence, especially when it involved converting full backs to play there. You look at teams who have conceded less, Preston are the obvious one. They lack an Armstrong or a Dack but they are built on solid foundations, getting a normal centre back like Bauer has really improved them, no nonsense to an extent, no transfer fee, one we missed out on. We shouldnt be snobbish towards players like that. Teams like Millwall, Forest, Swansea and Cardiff, they are organised better than us, they put more emphasis into defending properly, even when we brought in a good centre back at last, it was one who stands out for his technical ability. I also dont see us spending 3m.

Definitely. It is also certainly true that we are nowhere near good enough against the bottom teams. I think its 15 points out of a possible 42 against the bottom 7. So there is a credible point. But lets not make out that we are good enough v the top teams either.

I dont think we are anywhere near good enough against the lower teams, the points record shows that, the teams we have lost to shows that, there is a weakness there. Its just that theres a misconception that its our only weakness. But people often peddle this myth, "be typical Rovers to lose v bottom and beat top" and that we are good v the better teams. We need to improve v them too. Surely pre season should have a mix of teams we can try and break down and one or two better teams. We seem to be best against lower mid table also rans.

Its a bit of a myth that we are totally comfortable v the bigger teams in the division. Out of the 20 games we played v teams that finished above us, we collected 20 points. And 29 points from the bottom 10. We need improvement across the board, not just v the smaller teams.

I dont think that was the reason that Irvine or indeed a lot of players wouldnt play. Ultimately these players knew that they were soon to be out of contract and playing and potentially getting injured could jeapordise their chances ahead of their next contract. Lyle Taylor is an obvious example, about to get the last decent contract of his career, so it is totally understandable. Troy Deeney did have doubts similar to what you have mentioned but he played anyway, presumably content that it was safe to go back to playing

Refusing to play post lockdown isnt an indicator of a bad attitude. Its a quite understandable protection of a players career and is very common.

I certainly dont thnk that Nzonzi's performances were a "class above" but the reason that he had his doubters was because of his application, he had a tendency to strop and to down tools. Raya did make plenty of mistakes here to be fair which we shouldnt forget but he obviously was talented. The whole way that it was handled, fee, replacement (both quality and the fact it was a loan) and how the money was spent, the whole package was dismal from Mowbray.

Becsuse it didnt work.

What is Plan A? Clearly didnt work that well.

Brilliant penalty save by Raya.

Lets get plan A sorted before we worry about Plan B. And no false 9, box midfield, wide strikers crap.

Do we disagree on how those behind the striker should play? You never say what your opinion is, just repeatedly state what Mowbray does and doesnt do. Do you agree with wide strikers or do you prefer wingers to play there? You dont need to change a formation to have a "Plan B" but either way, you perfect Plan A first. You can change players. For example, Dack off Armstrong is plan A. Plan B could be to move Armstrong wide and put Gallagher up front. Struggling to break a team down with Travis and Evans in midfield? Put a Downing or Holtby there. Stick to the same formation all the time and it promotes consistency.

Mercer is trying to provoke and antagonise. Either way, "some people" dont expect academy players to all be Phil Jones and David Dunn, one person claims to in an attempt to wind up and cast doom. Tosin as a defender maybe slightly overrated, its his technical ability that makes him stand out. Either way, the main difference is the fact that had we signed Bauer, we could have had a long term partnership at CB. In essence, Adarabioyo just helped us finish mid table. If we had Raya and Bauer now, this very difficult summer would be far less difficult than it is now. Regarding Raya, thats 3 errors, if a goalkeeper makes 3 errors a season, youd take that. Its when it gets above 10 that you have a problem. Selling Raya for peanuts, loaning a crap temporary keeper and signing Gallagher with the Raya money was a dismal three pronged bit of business.

You mean Mercer does, a man who is a parody of himself with his daily administration predictions? Not "some people" Carter was ok v Reading, no more. Wasnt directly responsible for any of the goals but defensively we were poor again. The own goal was poor on his behalf, no escaping that, and one of numerous signs of him struggling. What you cant grasp with Raya is that it is almost as if for you, its mistakes or no mistakes, black or white. He has made far fewer errors which doesnt compute with you. Every goalkeeper makes them, hes made far less this year. Waltons problem is not that he made a mistake or 2, he made over 10. You wont acknowledge that even though hes still certainly not perfect, hes getting better and making fewer mistakes. And again like with Paul Mani you are totally looking short term when judging signings that were short term and helped us finish mid table. Whilst also judging the manager not on who he did sign but who he didnt sign but tried to, even though you dont know who they are! Would you be happier now if we had Bauer and Raya? Of course you would, and we could have had both and not got Gallagher.