Nyambe only if this 3 at the back crap is dropped.

That line up is frightening, in terms of the lack of attacking threat in the squad. I hope the formation is just to give everyone a game, not too concerned about the result or performance in a friendly but the lack of attacking quality is stark.

Not directly. But you said about McFadzean, hes experienced, so "what more do people want." Maddison, you turned your nose up but hes very similar to Dack. One of the proven very best players at League 1. Thus both youd think could handle the step up. Whereas Kent, presumably because you think its more likely, youve defended despite very limited success in his spells in the Championship. Davenport and in particular Rothwell, if you was consistent in your posts, youd have flagged up a lack of Championship experience on their part. Obviously you havent as you are totally blindsided to anything like that. And to clarify, im not doubting Mowbray, im not being negative, this post is aimed at your flawed logic and not at Mowbray.

Youre putting too much importance on experience within the division, yet dont care that our new signings have less than 20 games at this level between them?

Maybe you arent trying to wind people up and are just not reading my posts properly. I never said he isnt good enough! My main point is, "trust Mowbray" or "dont judge players before they sign" are not at all valid arguments. People are making judgements and are understandably skeptical about a 31 year old relegated journeyman. Just as they are excited about a player whose signed who was highly rated at city and did well last year. People will make judgements, some positive, some negative, deal with it. Still Charltons perogative to want as much as they see fit for a key player under contract. If someone bid 100k for Mulgrew and we said no would that also be out of order? Never said Kent is less than ideal. I said less ideal than Wilson who did so well at Hull and Woodburn who has looked quality when i have seen him both for club and country. Both players are linked with similar sized clubs so id like to see us also at least try for them rather than settle for someone due to a lack of interest elsewhere. Thats not a good goal record.

Not a chance that he will join a Championship club. Big ego, talented player who will go to France.

Agreed on Wilson and Woodburn being more difficult to sign as they are highly thought of but id like us to show a bit of ambition and make a push for both. Some of the clubs linked include the likes of Sheffield United so i dont think they are necessarily unobtainable. Youre right though, no chance of a permanent deal.

100% agree. Proven to create goals regularly.

Bogle is crap. Constantly offside and not Championship quality. Need better. Need people who can make a difference on loan. Kent would be less ideal than the more ambitious targets of Woodburn and Wilson on loan. Yes they will be harder deals to do but lets have some ambition. Reiss Nelson and Josh Sims are 2 other fast wide men that are highly rated if theyd be available.

Experience is not an only requirement. The player needs to be good enough too! Would we have Gordon Greer back? Wes Brown has experience? I personally dont think centre back is a priority. We are devoid of excitement and pace and have Mulgrew, Lenihan, Downing and worst case scenario Williams and Wharton there. Can you please stop telling me to trust Mowbray, I never said I dont. And to expect people not to judge new signings. I like the sound of Davenport, I presume you dont like that as its pre judging a player? Being linked with a 31 year old relegated journeyman will cause questions. And stop going on about Downing! I gave you the Whittingham example, some people will exceed expectations, some will fail to meet them, but people naturally judge our potential new signings and can do so without you bleating on that they shouldnt. Why is Charlton wanting a high fee for a key player unacceptable? If someone wanted Dack and we didnt sell him you wouldnt say what a joke that is or how unacceptable it is. You had a few weeks of sensible posting leaving interesting debate and now I feel youre just trying to wind people up again.

Wheres this from? And who are the signing? Or just a feeling?

That cant be the barometer for everything. He turned into a good squad player. Just as Whittingham was seen as too good for us and look how that turned out. Judge everything on its own merits. A promoted squad tends to need to improve just to survive and then consolidate and prosper in the division above. First we need to at least match the quality of the squad we had last year. Davenport gives us more depth in central midfield so thats good. Youd probably say Rothwell is a replacement for Payne, on paper thats Oxfords star man for half of last season for someone who was in and out but at least hes ours to develop. So we still need to replace Armstrong, Chapman and Antonsson with at least equal quality. We lack excitement, flair and pace and its up to Mowbray to get that.

"so doesn't sound pass it to me doesn't" - Chaddy can you please read what I put before misquoting me. Youve missed my point again, I was saying that in general, experience is not always necessarily advantageous, and gave 2 examples as to when that could be the case, in response to you saying "Experience centre back" I then clearly stated "I dont know if McFadzean falls into either of them categories" and showed that even though his CV is underwhelming, ive not seen enough of him. I never said he is past it, I was replying to a comment that didnt directly related to McFadzean. "Lets hope the signings we make are of a higher calibre than those linked" - Yep no problem, players like Harrison (a rumour that has been rubbished) dosent have the calibres to suggest that he would improve us, compared to Armstrong, Chapman and Payne who we have lost from last year. 31 year old relegated centre backs dont scream improvement either. Of course id back them and they may do well, but on the face of it, id hope that Mowbray signs players of a higher standard than the likes of those and I have faith that he will. As you say, Rothwell and Davenport are in the first team squad. We need a few ready made starters, especially wide to improve the 11. Not back ups.

As previously mentioned, what you are implying is people cannot make any judgements on potential signings unless they are positive, regardless of age, injury records, underwhelming career to date or whatever constructive points people are making. Experience isnt automatically a good thing. You can be experienced but too old and past your best (see Conway) or you can be experienced enough to have proven yourself as not good enough (for example, Lowe and Akpan have proven themselves to be not good enough for the Championship) I dont know if McFadzean falls into either of them categories, he might have been Burtons best player, and even if he did join it would be as back up youd think. Key word in all of that is maybe. Lets hope the signings we make are of a higher calibre than those linked. Im sure they will be. Probably agents putting their players names out to get them a club.

I believe that they did, maybe its a case of chinese whispers. Not bothered really unless he signs. Anyway, lets end this debate here. Very tedious haha.

Rumour - a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

All rumours chaddy. Regurgitated by more than one reporter at times, but still rumours. I'll wait until they are shown with a Rovers shirt. You believe what you like.

Same squad. No obvious losses either like we have had with Armstrong etc heading back after their loans. He is but hes good and thats all that matters.

You can back a manager, you can rate him and still occasionally think that he gets things wrong, because he is human. I think Southgate has done all the things you said, used young players, performed better than people expected, taken the fan base with him etc. I also think he was slow in his subs, in particular in midfield, and out thought by the Croatian manager last night. But overall, impressed for sure. If you cant make sensible constructive criticism, whether it be Mowbray or Southgate, 2 managers I am happy with, then it invalidates your stance because it shows that you can only accept the side of the argument that suits you.

He finished above us and above Mowbray with that squad "that isnt great." He is a bit of a prick but hes a good manager with a track record.

How was he right about the Bauer, Chapman and Harrison links? None of them have signed?! Im not convinced he was the one who broke the Davenport story, think it was the guy from Sky Sports, but hes wrong far more than hes right. Agree that we need to see who we sign. Rumours, Nixon ones included, are in the main, rubbish. All we can judge on is deals confirmed either way.

Agree on Boro being up there, wont be pretty but all that matters is results. Villa have no chance, aging squad with Grealish soon to go according to Bruce. Clubs in chaos. Swansea need to push to get back at the first attempt. Projects, whatever you call them, have to really try and get back at the first time of asking. My questions of Forest arent of the manager, hes proven himself with a promotion before. Not 100% of the calibre of the new players, if they are like Neves, Costa, Jota. Boly etc, and they still have some players that arent good enough but I fancy them for the play offs. QPR, not convinced they have the good young players to get them mid table? Plus managers a shocker, have to consider that. Bolton have a diabolical squad, Madines goal spree before he left is what got them over the line, Lowe and Donaldson are poor signings, players unpaid, have to be favourites for the drop.

Think its impossible at this early stage to be making such firm predictions to be honest. Looking at Rovers, the squad weve got now is considerably weaker than last seasons (no Armstrong, Chapman, Payne etc) but we will sign players so its a moot point. If we didnt wed probably go down. But we will. Stoke obviously have a settled defence, an experienced manager, Afobes a good signing and Etebo looks a decent player, bit of a World Cup revelation, they dont have any flair or width once Shaqiri leaves so that needs sorting. They look better than the other 2 relegated teams, Swansea havent done anything bar lose Fabianski and Ki, West Brom seem to have a team of wantaways, you can never be sure how Moore will do, can see the front 2 leaving, big pressure on Burke to step up. The traditional big clubs are a mixed bag, can see Villa struggling badly, Leeds have done nothing to back Bielsa, Forest have done some very interesting work in the transfer market, trying to replicate Wolves, spent big on Carvalho and Grabban will get plenty of goals. Can see them troubling the play offs. Norwich have lost their 2 stars but Marshall, Rhodes, Leitner, Passlack etc represents a mix of proven Championship quality and highly rated foreign players, they might do quite well. Can see QPR struggling with no money and a terrible manager, maybe they will drop to League 1. Also think Bolton will drop, surprised you didnt mention them @chaddyrovers adding Jason Lowe might be the final nail to an abject squad. Ipswich will struggle but their managerial appointment is a shrewd one. Rotherham will struggle, think Wigan can stay up.

My main point was that Nixon is the one talking nonsense. These targets are probably a figment of his imagination. I never said I know Mowbrays thoughts. I actually prefer Armstrong wide so if we signed him and played him there again id be very happy as long as we had a natural winger on the other side. How is that nonsense? An unnamed, unmentioned player? Yeah, most likely, and considering his work there last season, correctly.

Armstrong is not really a winger, another one who "can play there" albeit id potentially say hes actually more effective there. Would love him to sign permanently. Harrison is a striker isnt he? Most importantly, the source is a bad one.