Mowbray said he didnt think he was going to "force his way straight into the starting 11" which suggests that he would choose Williams or Mulgrew over him initially. The worry is that a player who obviously fit the criteria of Mowbrays need for defensive reinforcements was someone who the manager didnt see as instantly able to get his way into what was a horrendous defence last season. Either questions should be asked as to why hes chasing a player of that standard, or more likely that Mowbray is continuing to lack ruthlessness to drop quite a few players who have proven themselves unable to have the quality to push us on. This summer, we need players to improve the first team, not pad the squad out. Obviously he would be expected to work hard, he would at Preston or anywhere for that matter. You seem keen to make out as if Preston have promised him x, y and z but he made it clear in his interview (and Mowbray himself touched upon it) that he would have to battle to get into the team at Preston.

The King of Preston? Your use of hyperbole is ruining any point you may have, he went on to say that hed have to fight for his place at Preston. Theres a very reasonable doubt amongst many that Mowbray will sign players for the starting 11, rather than adding "depth" as he puts it but lacking the ruthlessness to remove some of the players that need replacing, Bennett, Bell, Williams, Mulgrew, all of whom should be at best, squad players.

If he isnt capable of dislodging Mulgrew or Williams then why has he even been chasing him? We need to sign players who can come straight into the team and the defence. Lets see if he can be ruthless with the defence as he must.

Mowbrays comments about telling Bauer he might not come into the team worry me simply because they IMO point to Mowbray being reluctant to dislodge the likes of Williams and Mulgrew, I suspect them 2, Bell and Bennett will play fairly regularly in our defence this season and if thats the case we simply will continue to leak goals. If them comments are because he planned to always sign another centre back then fair enough. A lack of ruthlessness continues to be his achilles heel. Also would much prefer Armstrong, Rothwell and Chapman over Mahoney.

The main thing about it is the clarity of how they are working, Jones mentioned that they have been working on these deals for months, and to announce all 5 ahead of pre season is exactly how in an ideal world business would be done. Would it be realistic to expect us to have 5 signings ready and waiting for pre season? No. But the point is that Mowbray, even with safety secured, has only recently discovered his budget having had to wait to fly to India, so it puts us at a disadvantage. In terms of individuals, Powell in particular is a bargain, he will get them goals and assists, in terms of him coming here obviously we have a number 10 as good as the majority in the league but Powell is still a very good player. Davies was brilliant for Barnsley and would walk into our side, as of course would Lindsay. Gregory would have offered far more credible competition for Graham. Cousins I agree is not very good.

Theres nothing wrong with judging as we go, if we sign someone good next, people will be happy and praise the manager, if we sign someone crap he will be criticised. If players that could have had an impact here go elsewhere, especially those linked strongly here like Bauer, of course people are going to comment on the potential that a rival competitor has potentially got an edge on us. Only the occasional conspirator will claim Mowbray is not a good man but we are judging his managerial skills, not his personality. In regards to Downing, I can understand plenty of the criticism, I am personally not the fan of signing a 35 year old winger who was fairly reliant on his pace, but the potential plus points have also been pointed out plenty.

If you arent interested in peoples judgements, then why are you in this thread prior to the closure of the window?

I dont disagree with your point in terms of Mowbrays reluctance to give game time to youngsters, it frustrated me a little at the end of the season when we had nothing to play for. To be honest, 2 of the main 3 I wanted to see more of, Chapman, Davenport and Butterworth are not academy graduates. My main disagreement was that the only thing splitting the young lads is game time, its totally baseless to imply that Tomlinson would have been equally as effective as Travis. In regards to Buckley, would have to totally disagree, he looked a little boy lost admittedly in a fairly short half hour cameo. Magloire didnt impress me either with his inability to head a ball. Butterworth looked right at home however. Came straight on and made something happen.

Whilst I appreciate your point that Mowbray has perhaps not utilised a successful academy as much as he might, you are speaking as if the youngsters are robots all of the same ability. When Buckley came on v Bolton he looked miles away. And as Jim said, the fact that Tomlinson left to join Mansfield says alot about where hes at. If you put a handful of the youth team in they wouldnt all adapt like a duck to water as Travis has done.

Who he supports or where he comes from is surely an irrelevance. Jason Lowe came through the academy but we couldnt want him any further from the club. The question should be does he have the quality to improve us and aid our supposed push for a top 6 place. I would say certainly not.

Where are these rumours?

We are quite a bit away from being relegation fodder but I think only Evans from that list of 4 would improve the teams who went down.

Sam Hart is never good enough. There is plenty of exciting youth as seen with the success of the u23s and some players above that already around the first team but Hart needs moving on for his own sake as much as anything.

Your sudden desperation to make everyone seem negative is bizarre. The main criticism when Harper signed was that as a 17 year old on loan, he would prevent our own young central midfielders from coming through. When he did play, he wasnt up to scratch at that time and looked out of his depth, highlights I remember are against Crewe when he got sent off and against Blackpool when our performance level dropped after his introduction. Its quite ironic that you put this down to "couch scouts" when many of these people who have recently commented are regulars at games and saw him play to make these judgements, and you are not in a position to do so yourself. As you say, the move didnt work out.

To be fair, he was specifically referring to Bennett being utilised basically anywhere he can be crow-barred in. I for one agree that it didnt work. Other things he has done have worked, obviously.

Yeah but very poorly and I dont want to see him play there again. Hes not a winger.

Im not sure the bottom paragraph is true. Brereton should only play up front if at all.

Mowbray was very lucky that many of the shit players he inherited were instantly out ot contract, Lowe, Akpan, Guthrie, Brown, Greer etc. But IMO much of your assumptions are obviously guesswork. He got to keep many of the main senior players that presumably on the highest wages, Mulgrew, Bennett, Graham, Evans etc. I dont get why you think Smallwood would be on such a low wage for example, a senior player who apparently had other offers when he joined. I bet Whittingham had a decent wage too. Whereas im sure Petshi was on nowhere near 10k. Guthrie and Akpan signed under embargo so theyd have been on 10k or under. Again, like yourself, just my own assumptions and guesswork but I dont detect a noticeable lowering of the wage budget under Mowbray at all. Any relegation clauses will have since im sure have been reversed with promotion. Also, with as much flex as you like, there would have been no way that Coyle could have splashed out 9m on 2 new forwards no matter how low their wages were. Mowbray has also been keen to dish out new contracts willy nilly to half the squad so that will have caused the wage bill to rise. Ultimately, the main reason for people mentioning a play off push so regularly is not because hes spent what hes spent or been allowed to keep his squad intact. Its because Mowbray himself keeps saying it. If we are miles away the pressure will soon build.

Mowbray acknowledged the Brereton fee was as reported when he said that that he could have spent "could have bought 6 or 7 players for 1 million each." Theres no way that the fees for Armstrong, Dack, Samuel, Bell, Rothwell, Chapman, Davenport, Downing, Gladwin and Hart dont come to the remaining 3 to 4 million.

The thing about the play offs is that Mowbray has repeatedly mentioned his desire to push for the top 6 this season, and it seems that this is a common theme across the board when youve got our new signing saying we can go for the top 6 too. You mention that hes signed Dack and Rothwell (the latter who for all his promise and perhaps due to being underused is yet to prove both here and in his career that he can provide goals/assists consistently) but he has spent over 10m, a very decent amount, much of which hes wasted (or maybe more amicably put, is yet to yield any on field return from) and claims to have a similar budget this time. If that comes to fruition, and he continues to seemingly not need to sell as he goes to raise funds (granted hes signed a few of those who theoretically could be sold) then hes at an advantage to most of his rivals. I wouldnt say top 6 or bust but we need a convincing push. And to clarify, I am very strong of the opinion that I give Venkys absolutely no credit for any supposed funding they provide, I echo much of what youve said about them.

Like you've implied, you've got to judge each player on their individual merits. For example, Graham and Mulgrew are both 33. Last season, Graham was brilliant, whereas Mulgrew went past the point of no return, regularly responsible for goals conceded and far worse points accumulation and goals conceded records with him playing compared to when he wasnt. You often find a sudden and sharp decline with players at that age. With Downing, obviously he will be 35 before the season, but he played plenty of games last season, and 2 goals and 1 assists suggest his influence has massively waned. Boro fans seem pretty conclusive that they are happy that he has moved on. As a player reliant on his pace and running at full backs, a lot of his main attributes are now very much in decline. I am not at all optimistic, I also dont think hes going to be a squad player, so I worry that whilst he may obviously help them in terms of learning one or two things, he will be a hindrance to Armstrong, Chapman and Rothwell in terms of game time.

But he came in when we was at a lower level, and also never had pace to begin with.

I dont understand why some people seem to be of the opinion that Downing will slot into Conways position and play a bit part role. I doubt he would have taken a really low wage nor would he have joined without the chance to play a good amount of football.

Not happy with this signing. Was hoping to see a bit of a new dawn moving away from Bennett and Conway trudging up and down creating and scoring very little, with the likes of Rothwell, Armstrong and Chapman chomping at the bit, and Conway leaving. Downing has lost his pace, will be 35 before the season starts and his influence on games has massively waned as you would expect with age, contributing precious little last season. A poor and unimaginative signing IMO.

I dont understand this comment at all. Criticism and "negativity" towards this potential deal is in my opinion constructive. We have a few pacy, exciting players who can play in the wide positions in Rothwell, Armstrong and Chapman, and have moved on (well sort of!) one of the two "defensive" wingers that have often lagged up and down the wings at the cost of an attacking threat down their sides. Its not easy to see why a soon to be 35 year old winger who was fairly reliant on his increasingly waning pace can fit in and improve us in that position, one who will presumably take a decent wage and is coming off the back of a barren season where his contribution of 2 goals and 1 assists is indicative of why Boro fans seemed fairly relived to see him leave. In terms of overall pessimism, you can understand impatience somewhat considering the owners we have have proved incredibly eccentric and unreliable as we all know. Mowbray hasnt done anything to warrant much confidence in terms of his ability to improve a defence either. Its an area hes neglected throughout his tenure here, spending less than 500k of well over 10m, on Downing (very much a League 1 stand in who has been released), Bell (cant defend at all, very flimsy) and Sam Hart. (who?) He turned his nose up at spending a fairly small fee on a defender he clearly wanted, and his back up choice was to sign a free agent midfielder and try and fail to shoehorn him in there. Defensive issues have been his achilles heel in the past, notably at Coventry where he admitted regret over not signing a leader at centre back. So is Lenihan, the long diagonal out of play is his speciality. Very limited on the ball.