I dont think hes "far more talented" the main thing Dack has over Grealish is a constant supply of goals which is far more important than any other skill for an attacking player anyway. I dont remember many games (if any of the top of my head) this season where Dack has dominated but his goal record is excellent.

My point was that regardless of our attacking selections, aimless and persistent long balls dont suit any of our attacking choices, as bourne out by the stats. I feel like you are missing that point.

No I think I read it at some point recently in the Lancashire Telegraph but that backs it up. You mention adapting to Brereton and Armstrong, my point is it doesnt really suit us even if Graham plays, who has at times done very well with aimless, thoughtless hoofs to maintain possession. The fact that we have scored 5 open play goals in 9 home games shows we need to look at this issue even if Graham plays.

Playing the most long balls in the league is something that doesnt even suit our players. Graham has been brilliant in the main this season but he has very much made the most out of very little service, and is better when the ball is not just hoofed to him to compete against 2 big centre backs. The manager needs to look at modifying that tactic, whether it is Graham or Brereton, as it suits neither.

Haha I have corrected it. But yes I do, and all I'll say is that its a licence to print money.

He is for me not a central midfielder in a 2, barring in circumstances such as yesterday. His running with the ball is both exciting and risky in equal measures, and he will do more damage to opponents if played as part of the 3 in front of our 2 central players.

Very frustrating, and a good job we are well stocked in his position.

Evans and Palmer over Smallwood and Bennett for me.

It is but it is up to him and the manager to come up with the answer to that, and I dont think shoving him wide will help with getting him involved, same with Brereton. Do you agree with my comments about the manager and players coming up with ways to get our attacking players involved without being more reliant on long balls than any other team in the league, even though they dont really suit the players we have. At home there is too much passing safe, especially when both Evans and Smallwood are playing together and Mulgrew isnt in the team, this was particularly painful to watch v QPR last week. We need to play at a much higher tempo from the start, with much more passing forward between the lines. Why would you not play Palmer at Preston? Lets go on the front foot and attack a team with a terrible defensive record.

Theres a hell of a lot of circumstance and luck that fell into place when we went down too. Firstly, we had a number of players, Lowe, Akpan, Henley, Greer, Mahoney and Brown, as well as the loans who had failed to consistently impress/impress at all, all of whom were out of contract. Therefore in terms of a re-build, much of the deadwood was already set to depart without any planning/hard work needed. We then had a remaining squad which mainly fell into 2 categories, experienced players on decent wages and some with questionable fitness who were unlikely to have many suitors demanding to buy them (Mulgrew, Graham, Bennett, Evans, Williams) and young players who still hadnt totally convinced and a season in League 1 was perfectly timed. (Nyambe, Lenihan, Raya) If Mowbray had been allowed to hand pick which players to keep and which to let go regardless contract, he wouldnt have done it much differently to how it played out, so he was lucky there. We were also lucky that relegation happened to be the trigger for the owners to at least give the manager somewhat of a budget and some freedom to tailor the remaining squad into exactly how he wanted. The only reason that Lambert garnered so much popularity at any point was because he left and the fans saw it as a two fingered salute towards the owners, who obviously we all hate. Most managers who plan to leave and do leave in the way that he did would have been criticised. Throw in to the mix who replaced him, a manager who in no way shape or form can anyone spin into a positive, and for a manager who was dull, who played dull football with at best average if not poor results, sold the star player and fans favourite and replaced him with a series of loans and short term signings, he couldnt have come out of such a spell looking any better if he had planned it. May I ask @Parsonblue was you genuinely happy at the time of Coyle's arrival, or are your comments about things being a "huge cause of celebration" very much borne out of hindsight in terms of who followed Lambert?

Agreed, that is an obvious concern especially with the partnership he has with Dack. I do think that if and when Mowbray does select Brereton over Graham, he needs to be trusted to do more in central areas. It can be frustrating to see someone lining up a cross, as happened on more than one occasion yesterday, with our striker stood near the touchline, presumably on management instructions as another cross doesnt end on a Rovers head/foot. Graham will be back on form soon, hes had a couple of poor games in a row but has been excellent this season and has been written off prematurely before. No player can maintain form for an entire season. And you speak as if scoring goals is a minor justification towards a starting spot. All Dack is doing at the moment is scoring as his all round game has dipped, and most of his goals this season have been tap ins, but no matter how bad the rest of his game is, if he keeps scoring, he is undroppable. I find it very strange how underestimated scoring goals have become in judging performances! I don't think that playing the most long balls in the league suits either of them to be honest. Graham has in many games made the best of a bad situation, but we need to be far more inventive in terms of getting the ball forward. The stats I have quoted in the Rotherham thread show that it has to be an area, both for Mowbray and the players to look towards working on. We have plenty of inventive attacking players that play between the lines, Lenihan has been a colossus lately but he is as prone as anyone to the aimless hoof from back to front, we need more composure to play the ball to feet, and we need to play at a far higher tempo, from the start especially at home. I also think that Mowbrays selection of attacking players (Palmer and Armstrong) on both sides is one that should be repeated, again especially at home.

How do you know hes not ready? He played over a season in Nottingham Forests first team, hes not an untested player like Nuttall. Thats how hes forged the reputation all these people you "know in football" mention in the first place. And are you saying that hes not even ready to push Graham? We cant afford to spend 7m on a player whose unable to contribute yet. In the last 2 games, in small cameos, hes won a penalty and set up a goal, so he clearly can offer something. Surely hes worth a start in the near future, perhaps at Deepdale, as a number 9, where he is best suited? Take off the cotton wool and give him a go in his best position. Thats incredibly harsh on Graham. For me, up to and including the Leeds game, he was at that point our best player of the season, his strike play has been more often than not textbook and a perfect foil for Dack to continue to score goals at an impressive rate. I also dont think "barren spell" is fair on Dack, his general game has not quite been up to it but im reluctant to suggest hes out of form or be too harsh on him whilst the goals keep flowing, 3 in 6, 6 in 11, 8 in 14, his consistently excellent goals return guarantees him as first on the team sheet We do need to be much better going forward, and we certainly have the players to do so much better. At times I feel like we lack invention and intelligence, the stat showing us as having the most long balls in the league is testament to that, and I don't know how many times I have seen us get the ball in wide positions and put in lazy thoughtless crosses that are usually cut out by the first man. Graham should have more than 3 league goals, and 2 combined goals between Armstrong, Brereton, Palmer, Rothwell and Bennett isnt enough, and has left us still scratching our heads and debating amongst ourselves as to what the best formula is. The stat from @blueboy3333 (was it 5 goals from open play in 9 home games?) and also the one that weve scored just 1 goal in the first half at home this season suggest that our attacking players need to improve their numbers, and that Mowbray needs to come across a way of playing that improves these figures. I think there is plenty to improve on considering the praise we have got for our season so far. We need to be better going forward, we need to stop starting home games so slowly, we need to stop throwing away points from winning positions and we need more goals aside from Dack.

I know Brereton isnt a target man but that doesnt invalidate my assertion that he wont score goals standing near the touchline. Surely his runs will be most dangerous if they are made beyond the defenders. Im not saying never drift wide into the channels but he needs to spend more time in the centre. Whether you are a target man like Crouch, a poacher like Rhodes or a pacy striker like Vardy, you get your goals in the centre. I agree that we should have won, although Palmers shot and all of Bennetts shots were speculative and at times the incorrect decision. Bell should have also scored in the first half and Graham had 2 golden opportunites. I felt that one of our biggest downfalls was some poor and brainless balls played in from wide positions.

As a central, lone striker, he needs to spend most of his time between the width of the 18 yard box. Thats where he will get his goals. I thought that our crossing in general was really poor today but it doest help when your only striker is standing near the touch line when the cross comes in. I suspect that the reason he spends so much time wide is down to manager instructions, based on Mowbrays recent commets aboht him.

I knew it had some relevance to you but couldnt remember if it was either you or friends who were affected. And even if you add 400 its still below target.

I did find it frustrating to see Brereton at one point get the ball out wide and whip in a cross and there was no one in the middle to get on the end of it. Which is hardly surprising with our 6 foot odd striker stuck out on the wing. There were a few times when we got the ball wide near the end and he was (obviously under instruction) stood outside the width of the 18 yard box when he would have been prime target for the ball in had he have been more central.

The main thing you was pushing was tickets for a certain number of games to suit people working shifts. The only reason you suggested it was because it is one that may affect you and my counter argument was that it would just lead to current season ticket holders opting to downgrade to the new ticket which would offer much less games. All of these potential reasons you list are not reasons that are new. Theres not a sudden shift in Rovers fans work shifts/patterns or increased family committments. For every fan who suddenly cannot go because of new shifts or family committments, another fan will be able to attend again. Id love to know whats going on in your head for that to be one of the main reasons as if theres been a sudden change. The club cant do anything about personal circumstance anyway, just like it cannot cancel christmas. What it can control, ie Waggott, is how much it charges for season tickets, whether it charges a matchday surcharge, and whether it comes up with inventive ways such as clever promotions to increase attendances. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16977667.rovers-chief-executive-discusses-ewood-park-crowds/?ref=ar And where does it say that the target includes half season tickets? Waggott shows concern, shows a total ignorance towards historical sales, and a blatant disregard for the importance of cost, seemingly working on the assumption that as long as the team are doing well, price becomes less important.

Either way, do you agree he should be judged on meeting targets like anyone else? Whats that got to do with anything? I didnt mean for me to take advantage of or personally benefit from, the whole thread is about attendances. I meant in terms of getting higher attendances, you mentioned christmas as a potential reason that may limit attendances. My response being, it is the same every year, so why arent the club and Waggott more creative and proactive in coming up with deals to make it more affordable?

Didnt have much to do, a couple of dodgy kicks par for the course really and seemed slow to get down for the goal but the header was textbook, back from where it came from.

Bar Mercer, who wants Mowbrays head? And who said we would go down?

Either Waggott has overestimated potential sales or his pricing has caused sales to fall below target. One of the 2. He deserves criticism and questioning either way, just as Mowbray would if he finished below his target, or say Dack scored less goals than his target. My qualm is not with matchday pricing, it is with a lack of a special deal/promotion.

If you think the prices are "about right" then why did our season ticket sales fall below Waggotts target? Christmas comes every year, it is up to Waggott to empathise with supporters and make tickets more of an attractive and affordable proposition regardless. Sheffield Wednesday at home for example seemed perfect for a promoted deal of some description. Each to their own, but feels like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face to make a statement.

I would understand if today that was the reason behind Nyambes exclusion from the starting 11, but I don't think Bennett should be guaranteed a place. I think Reed has all of the qualities you mention whilst providing a level of additional quality, albeit both were poor today. Totally agree on your point about goals from open play, and find it bizarre that anyone can question Dack's inclusion, if only for his goals alone.

I feel like Brereton would be more effective if he spent more time within the width of the 18 yard box, something hes obviously told not to do by a manager who seemingly doesnt trust him centrally. I felt like after our goal any potential search for a winner fizzled out and half the time we had no focal point in the box when we got into crossing positions. I thought our crossing all day was absolutely shocking, Bennett was particularly bad in the first half, Bell throughout too. Need to take far more care crossing into areas where our opponent has 2 big centre backs heading everything away. Whilst I appreciate that Bennett has many qualities, is it just his attitude that makes you feel he should be guaranteed a place in the team? Or is it a lack of belief in Palmer and Rothwell? Today I felt he was shoehorned in at right back wrongly because it was easier than dropping him. Mowbray had decided to play 2 attacking players wide and I felt he was vindicated in the amount of chances we created. But I felt he should have started Nyambe.

The argument "they cant give them away" is a straw man argument. That isnt the only alternative. The price has been increased following last season, thats what is questionable. I also dont think that enough is made of Waggott's admitted inability to hit his own sales target. Proof more than anything else that he under-appreciated and underestimated the importance and impact of raising prices. I find it strange that people are of a mindset whereby their instinct is criticise fans for not buying season tickets. The target of potential buyers of season ticket holders arent dedicated regulars, otherwise theyd already have a season ticket.