Im almost certain hes not under the impression that he still plays for us. He was at Ewood yesterday, as mentioned above.

Douglas in particular, a wing back with the most assists in the league last year. Definitely a big improvement. Cant think of any better players in the league in that position. Bamford im unconvinced about but he was won the player of the season in this league before, and has a good goal record in it. Compared to the rubbish they had in that position last season.

Is that response really needed? Trying to twist his argument to make him seem unrealistic and unreasonable. There are plenty of examples of wingers at this level that are either available (Maddison an example) or have been signed elsewhere (Adelakun, Edwards etc) that cost nowhere near that amount. @JHRover @RevidgeBlue would you both be happy with a couple of loans if they were to supplement a couple of permanent signings? If we only signed loans, I also would be disappointed. But its not a zero tolerance on loans, there have been some very good loan signings, Tammy Abraham and Mitrovic 2 of the best examples. But its all about not being over reliant on them. Last time we were at this level, we had Gallagher, Emnes, Joao, Hendrie, Byrne and Hoban, and were over reliant on them. Sign a couple, players like Palmer who we couldnt afford to buy, a long with an Armstrong or similar permanently, and youve got a balance.

Dont think anyone would want Greer as back up. I wouldnt be opposed to loaning out Travis, just to get him regular game time but if he stays around you know its far easier to get him game time. Say hes on the bench and we are winning, his versatility means its fairly easy to get him valuable minutes. With Wharton being a centre back its far more difficult so I think hes better playing regular football, albeit im not convinced he should be in League 2.

Agreed but its against kids. Have to see how he faces up against adults but its a good point in that hopefully hes stronger than most young strikers. Graham is someone he may learn a lot from in using his strength. If he joins.

Never worth that, but Douglas and Bamford massively improve them on last season.

I think everyone understands that loans are crucial in terms of supplementing the squad, as long as its aswell as permanent signings. The only reason that people would be annoyed is if we only signed loans which is perfectly fair. The 2 players in question have different question marks around them. Kasey Palmer, there has been unanimous agreement that he has the ability, proven in particular in playing a key part in getting Huddersfield promoted. in making a big impact. The only real debate has been how hes going to fit into our team, baring in mind his natural position is where our best player currently plays. Also seen a few people including myself a bit disappointed with the length of the loan suggested but hopefully he will be here for the season, one way or another. Lukas Nmecha, im unsure how he also fits under the phrase "far better than what we could afford to buy." Hes barely kicked a ball competitively, hes obviously a talent but he must be very raw and theres very little evidence, unlike with Palmer, to suggest that within the next year he would be better than what we could get permanently. Bauer for me is one where he obviously is more than good enough to be our 3rd centre back, just seems a waste to spend a decent fee on an player who would only play if we had an injury, as much as I appreciate the need for a good squad. Arsmtrong is in my eyes a winger, he was so effective there and provided far more width than I expected him too, when Samuel and Gallagher have played there for us under Mowbray they looked like strikers playing wide, a bit awkward, whereas Armstrong looked like the position suited him to the ground. If Mowbray is unconvinced after last season then hes a tough one to please, he was excellent.

Apologies. I remember you saying that you would have loaned him to League 1 and I thought you had a fair point. I thought you was suggesting that he should have stayed here. My mistake.

Agreed, clips of him against other kids are all thats out there. Not too keen on signing such a raw player on loan, and would love us to buy Armstrong. Palmer, Dack and Armstrong all playing off Graham would be excellent. The same one that said Kent would sign within 48 hours? Haha. I was there and very impressed by what I saw, as I said in the pre season thread. However, im wary not to read too much into a friendly. My doubts are not in regards to the way that the current squad have gelled together, that didnt really surprise me, particularly in a 4-2-3-1 we already know they were playing well last year. We know they buy into Mowbrays way of working. But Samuel has not shown anywhere enough to suggest he can become a winger regularly, and the team that played v Stanley just shows how weak we are beyond the first team, none of that team would have a significant chance for me of starting on Saturday. Totally, 100% agree. With our limited resources, as much as possible should be spent on attacking players, wingers/strikers to challenge the first team, not a centre back who will almost certainly be behind Mulgrew and Lenihan in an area of little concern.

Dont really get your insistence on Wharton and your unhappiness that he left on loan, considering your interest in our youth players in terms of breaking into the first team, and also his position. I'm guessing you wouldnt see him breaking up Mulgrew and Lenihan. Therefore his game time would be extremely limited. That said, im guessing the Greer comment is based on him being at that fun day yesterday, but totally agree that id be very annoyed if he signed.

Yeah, bad wording but I mean in terms of track record. I will give him a chance like I do any player, im not writing him off but I find it hard to get excited about a loan for a player whose only played youth football really. Like I said, I am sure hes a talent, but you look at say the Palmer loan, hes impressed at this level so im more excited about that. Im also surprised if City would loan him here as Graham is our first choice striker.

Nixon repeating rumours that have been around for weeks as his own. Theres a surprise. Hope the Nmecha rumour isnt right, the lad has barely kicked a ball in competitive football. Im sure hes talented but compared to Armstrong who had scored goals prior, its a massive downgrade. If we do get Nmecha, we then shouldnt buy another striker, we should spend that money on a winger, seeing as we need both. @chaddyrovers them quotes are a bit concerning. Dont want us waiting until the end of next month to sign players, we need them as soon as possible, weve got some winnable games to get off to a crucial good start. Hope the Everton game, impressive as it was, hasnt pulled the wool over his eyes. We need players just as much.

Did Rothwell play on the left, and is he particularly quick? Davenport has seemed a bit hit and miss, he looked well out of his depth against Liverpool, well I suppose he was anyway v Keita and Fabinho but some of his passes were awful under no pressure.

Not good. What did Rothwell do to impress, and what was so disappointing about Davenport?

Glad that pre-season is finished and the next game is the serious stuff. Feel like the start of the season is critical, weve started really poorly in the last 2 seasons; Mowbray spoke with a lot of regret about the lack of challenge in the last pre-season and how it led to the bad start, so I hope this seasons has proved more beneficial. The first 6 games are key in my opinion, more than usual as we need to prolong the momentum built from promotion, and the first 6 fixtures are quite favourable, so I would hope we could target double figures in our points return from these games. We need a few new additions but thats nothing we dont know, they need to be ASAP though, not at the end of the loan window.

Nah. Tomlin too similar to what we already have. Pilkington not the type of player we need either, too slow to give us anything different. Bogle just shite.

I cant remember when we had "fantastic games" under it to be honest, and statistically we were better playing as a four, as it suits our players better. I personally think we will start the season in a 4-2-3-1, and I hope it offers us the same success that it did last year. Its a myth that there are no wingers out there who like to get chalk on their boots. I provided a list of wingers at this level who like to get wide and stretch the play. We would be in a minority if we went into the season without a natural winger. I felt that Chapman was always more of a threat on the right personally, when he was on the left his pace could be nullified more easily. Again, I appreciate the comments about fluidity within attacking positions. And also about the different roles the wider attacking midfielders can play, in particular in the 4-2-3-1 that I hope we play, due to previous successes. Naturally more central attacking midfielders such as Palmer (and Payne last year), natural strikers such as Samuel (and Armstrong and Antonsson last year) and also more defensively minded wingers such as Bennett. (who I think needs to do a lot more going forward than he did last year, when he didnt offer enough) However, having said all that, I feel we will be missing a lot by not having 1 or 2 natural wingers within our armoury. There will be plenty of times when a combination of 2 of Palmer, Rothwell, Samuel, Bennett and Conway will lead to us being predictable.

What? My point was, Mowbray played 4-2-3-1 for the majority of last season when we got 96 points. We tried 3 at the back a couple of times and he reverted back to 4 straight away each time. I never said Mowbray made any mistakes against Everton. My point was that it was the first time in pre season that the players were playing 90 minutes, and he picked his strongest available team. He chose to pick said strongest team in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Suggesting thats his first choice formation, potentially anyway. The players all looked comfortable and knew their role, and it was only a friendly but they all look very well drilled. The points I made about Mulgrew, Nyambe and Bell were all hypothetical. Reasons why I personally think the 3 at the back formation doesnt suit our current squad. Either youve totally misunderstood my point, or that response has totally confused me. I wasnt criticising Mowbray, I was responding to posters who suggest that they think we will play 3 at the back, saying that I dont think we should. I also expect, especially after yesterdays game, that Mowbray will start the season playing 4-2-3-1. My post was in no way criticising Mowbray.

Not sure on Rothwell, think he is more attacking. That said, agreed with Davenport and Whittingham also options.

Front 4 would be excellent. Lovely mix to it. Smallwood and Evans central for me though.

He played in both formations I believe. Equally comfortable as a full back or wing back. The reasons that I dont want us to play 3 at the back are as follows: - We had far more success under 4 at the back last season, was a big part of our 18 match unbeaten run, please see below article for evidence: https://roverschat.com/will-three-be-the-magic-number/ - I feel it doesnt suit quite a few of our players, please see my post above. - I feel like 3 at the back is quite an advanced formation that is not suitable to be alternated with another, rather a formation that a team needs to be expertly and continuously drilled on.

I definitely agree with you on how players can actually take their games up a level when they play in positions that arent at that point where they are best known. We signed Armstrong last season as a striker and I would argue that playing wide actually benefited him, and I would consider him a winger more than a centre forward now. (although that may have been the balance of him, Dack and Graham that caused it to be so successful) I agree with your examples as well, I have always been firmly of the opinion that both are far more suited to defence. However, my point was more aimed at how if you have the freedom of the transfer market, it would make little sense that when theres a specific position that you are looking for, ie winger, that if you can only sign one player, you sign a player who naturally plays in a different position, but "can" play in the position you need. Thats why my appraisal on the Palmer signing, a player who I definitely rate quality wise, is partially dependant on who else accompanies him in before the window closes. If its Palmer AND a winger and striker, then id be very happy, if it wasnt, then id be puzzled. A good example of that is last season at Everton. They signed 3 number 10s, Sigurdsson, who can also play left, Rooney, who can also play as a striker, and Klassen, who can also play deeper in central midfield. Everyone praised them for the 3 signings, who took up the majority of the budget. They tried to get Rooney and Sigurdsson at least in the same team, but with no width or focal point after Lukaku had left, their imbalanced squad struggled before Big Sam signed Walcott, got Bolasie back and signed Tosun. Dack, Palmer and Rothwell might seem like a case of you can never have too much quality, but only if signing all of these at once isnt at the cost of the balance of the rest of the attack.

I can imagine I wont be the only frustrated fan if he reverts from a successful formation to one that in the main, had more questions than answers last season. Last night was the first time Mowbray could play what he considered to be his best team, and he played 4-2-3-1, so im hoping he has learnt from his mistakes. Bell is a left back, he was playing there at Fleetwood. Equally capable as a wing back granted but hardly proof that hes the catalyst for reverting to 3 at the back. He played Bennett at full back last season because Nyambe was injured, and at full back, not wing back so thats a strange example. Nyambe is never a wing back in a million years. Hes suited to full back as hes far better defensively than he is going forward. Mulgrew would be the middle of the 3, therefore the least able to step out. When we played it the other season he was on the left which gave him license to move out knowing there was a defender in the middle as cover. Lenihan is not a ball playing defender by any means and neither is Williams so im not sure they are suited to that formation either. Otherwise, we should play 3 at the back...

Im personally very hopeful that we stick to the 4-2-3-1 formation that has seen us well throughout last season. Our attempts at playing 3 at the back with the current personnel have been unsuccessful and I would hope that Mowbray sticks with the system that has proven itself to suit our current team.

Assuming Kasey Palmer will be playing wide, big assumption but Dacks obviously not gonna change position. Im not convinced that hes gonna do much tracking back, not naturally anyway. I do agree that there will be times for a wide player whose more defensive than attacking, Bennett predominantly, but even if its to compete with Palmer as the third attacking option in a side with Dack and Graham, I feel its always wise to have at least one option of natural width. That said, I hope the handbrake is released to an extent and Palmer isnt handled with the same gloves that Chapman and Payne were last season, seen solely as an impact sub.