roversfan99

Dont get a fascination with 2 up top, when our strike pairing including a second striker have scored so many goals between them and are doing so well together. The likelihood would be that whoever came in as a second striker instead of Dack would score less than him, and Dack out of position would almost certainly lose much of his goal threat. If theres one area of our team that is working and can stay as it is, its Dack and Graham as a partnership.

This will be lapped up by half the messageboard but its peddling a load of old rubbish that isnt true. Most of my friends believe we are heading in the right direction with exactly the right manager at the helm - so do most of the people on this messageboard, contrary to what some would suggest, very, very few people (Mercer and jim i think are the only 2 I know who have insinuated it) that arent happy with Mowbray in charge. Very much the minority. I was very happy that the owners signed Mowbray up on a long term contract - again, see above, so are the majority on here. impressed with some of the football that we are trying to play - in terms of results, ie the important part, we are about where we should be, and Mowbray has done a good job. Aesthetically, less so, we are very direct, play the most long balls in the league and often rely on set pieces to score. there are players who will gradually be replaced - Mowbray said that himself last month - agree that it needs to happen, some feel that perhaps it is happening too slowly in terms of too much loyalty afforded to the likes of Smallwood and Armstrong, with some of his own signings (Rothwell, Palmer, Rodwell, Brereton) yet to be consistently incorporated into his team. Lets not go down the route of perceiving criticism of certain aspects to be an overall unhappiness with Mowbray or the direction that the club is going in under him.

It hardly not accompanied with some level of scope to suggest that, this early within this teams progression, as Mowbray will testify with his pleas for x more transfer windows and comments such as the one he made yesterday, stating that "thats where we are at the moment, " that the TYPE of signing Brereton was is a questionable one. Someone who may turn out to be a prudent signing long term, we dont know. But someone who has yet to really contribute, and has yet to start a league game, with so many other areas in which we needed to improve first. You seem to be insistent on downplaying that we had any room to manoeuvre in the transfer market, and quashing any scope for discussion. Firstly, that we are recently promoted is factual but also slightly misleading at the same time. You compare us to Rotherham for example, we have far bigger expectations and far bigger resources. The point of the list was more to add some context to any suggestions that 7 million is anything but a large amount of money at this level. I'm not naive enough to go, we should have signed Hunt, Robinson, Egan, Benrahama and Pukki with that 7m instead. I appreciate that there are other factors, notably wages. What I dont accept is to just presume that there is absolutely no room to manoeuvre, its the same with your similar argument @chaddyrovers. Just to make assumptions about the wages that potential targets may or may not have demanded with no real evidence. We have also got resources tied up on the likes of Rodwell and Palmer that perhaps werent the wisest in retrospect, 2 players who have been signed very much for the short term and dont have the same argument about a long term project to fall back on like Brereton, neither of whom have at any stage been able to nail down a regular place or contribute significantly to our season. For me, the acid test for Brereton will be, as soon as Graham leaves the club, is he ready to instantly take over his mantle, albeit perhaps in a different way. He is not a total novice now by any means, but obviously he will need to markedly improve before then. We can only judge from what weve witness so far.

I'd offer to take him for a drink but I suspect I may get an answer similar to Mercer...

I think that when Dack goes, we are in trouble due to our reliance on him and his at times underappreciated consistency in terms of goals and assists. None of the signings that Mowbray has made have suggested that they can come close to taking on that mantle, and where do the goals come from then? I find your comment that "he can be invisible when things don't go well resulting in a 10 vs 11 type of game" to be incredibly harsh, he more than anyone shows for the ball and even yesterday he was coming for me a little too deep to try and get involved.

I never felt we would be near the bottom, mid table is about where I expected, wouldnt say we are overachieving. But I do think that Mowbray is doing a good job and have never suggested otherwise.

Im not sure thats entirely fair. He plays in his favoured position but playing the most long balls in the league is hardly playing to his strengths. One of those blessing in disguises whereby the second striker we currently play who scores on average every other game (and assists too) is removed?

The thing is, I dont think ive seen anyone say our league position is not good enough. Thats not what people are questioning. Have I seen people question his recruitment? Yes. His team selections? Yes. Our constant throwing away of points? Yes. Just hurling valid, constructive individual criticisms and discussion under the "yeah but we are meeting expectations in terms of our position" is totally missing the point.

I believe the comment was part of a follow up to a question about us throwing away 2 more points, nothing to do with our league position in general.

@Ewood Ace responded with the same point as I was going to make. You judge based on what people say rather than what people do. There have been no signs of us changing our style on the pitch, we still play direct, long ball, playing the percentages football. I judge on what I see on the pitch, not on soundbites in interviews which until they are carried out mean nothing. He has been accused of being overly loyal to his favourites, he Smallwood for example has had numerous poor games but he continues to be selected, rather than moving Reed central or the far more technically capable Rodwell who he signed. He has been overly loyal to Armstrong, who in the main has been poor this season. 2 more of his signings, Rothwell and Palmer who both are capable of perhaps making our team more technically proficient, have in the main been kicking their heels on the subs bench all season. Even with the personnel at his disposal, if he does genuinely want to play a more passing based style, he seems reluctant to use the players that he presumably brought in to help implement it, and there have been no signs of these changes thus far. Football is all about results anyway, there is no right and wrong way to play. But just commenting on all of this Mowbrays vision nonsense.

Nit picking a tad but wasnt too impressed with Mowbray saying maybe "thats just where we are." He was right to feel frustrated, I dont think that a constant surrendering of points is ever something that you should be accepting of or is just a growing pain. What makes you say that Brereton would suit a passing style, his first touch and technical ability are certainly not his strong suits? I dont think that a total change of tact from a long ball team to a passing team is imminent or reasonable and there are no signs that it is being gradually done. We need competition at right back now, Travis is seen as a midfielder, as is Bennett.

You keep talking about this vision but ive not seen any tangible signs that we are working towards a new playing style. We play long ball football (most in the league) and have shown no signs in terms of playing style of slowly filtering in any Please can you explain exactly what you mean by Mowbrays vision? The reason that @Gavlar Somerset Rover! presumably posted that is that Brereton is not only a player in his own right, but a player who cost such a big fee that people may argue that could have been utilised in better ways. Gallagher is unable to hold the ball up so wouldnt be adequate in terms of an alternative to Graham. If we are going to change style then we may aswell pursue with our 7m signing.

If your primary argument is that its difficult to sign players at reasonable players full stop then surely all signings and all managers are exempt from judgement when they make a signing? Just to prove that there are reasonably priced players that could have improved us in various areas where we could have done with reinforcements, here are some other Championship transfers from the summer. I have excluded some loans that I felt were unrealistic (, and I am not saying that ALL these players were necessarily attainable, or that all of them would have proved to be clever acquisitions. Prices taken from transfermarkt: RB - Moses Odubajo (Brentford, free), Jack Hunt (Bristol City, 1.5m) CB - Kyle Bartley (Swansea, 4m), Jordan Storey (PNE, 750k), Ezri Konza (Brentford, 2.5m), John Egan (Sheff Utd, 4m), Adam Webster (Bristol City, 3.6m), Tamas Kalas (Bristol City, loan), Michael Hector (Sheffield United, loan), Michael Hefele (Forest, 300k), Reece Burke (Hull, 1.5m) LB - Connor Townsend (WBA, 750k), Jay DaSilva (Bristol City, loan), Barry Douglas (Leeds, 3m), Jack Robinson (QPR, free) RW - Barrie McKay (Swansea, 500k), Florian Jozefzoon (Derby, 2.8m), Duane Holmes (Derby, 750k), Brandon Barker (PNE, loan), Said Benrahma (Brentford, 1.5m), Gwoin Edwards (Ipswich, 700k), Jack Harrison (Leeds, loan) ST - Jack Marriott (Derby, 3m), Martyn Waghorn (Derby, 5m), David McGoldrick (Sheff Utd, free), Andreas Weimann (Bristol City, 2m), Teemu Pukki (Norwich, free), Nakhi Wells (QPR, loan), Lewis Grabban (Forest, 6m), Josh Windass (Wigan, 2m) Just wanted to dispel any myths that 7m isnt a hell of a lot of money to spend at this money. No one has said that. You are exaggerating and twisting a genuine argument that we could have improved other areas or spent the money much more efficiently at this stage of the teams development to something totally ridiculous.

Surely that is a closed minded comment baring in mind our glaring deficiencies elsewhere? Why are we spending the majority of our budget on someone yet to start in the middle of December, when we are still so short in other positions.

Feel free to answer and accompany with further reasoning. I dont go as a group of 4, it wasnt me, were these people shouting their opinions or just talking amongst themselves?

It also adds weight to the argument that perhaps, at this point in our development as a team under Mowbray, that spending such a large sum on a player unable to provide competition was not a wise idea.

Do you have yes or no answers to these questions please: Do you agree that our constant tendency to throw away points from winning positions is a massive concern? Is our fragile defence something that worries you at all? Do you not at all go back on your opinion that signing competition for Nyambe is necessary? Do you agree than Graham is much more effective in our team than Brereton? I am not in my mid 30s so no that wasnt me and further still, I am not a member of the "I hate Ben Brereton society." The fee will of course cause an added sense of intrigue, pressure and added discussion, like it or loathe it. Just as Mowbray is commended further for his signing of Dack when considering his small fee. People will obviously judge if we have a 7 million striker yet to start, yet to score, as a team with weaknesses in a number of positions.

It did, in that Graham made way for him. Obviously the sub was not the main reason (forced or otherwise) for our collapse but you are naive to suggest that it had no impact on the game. Brereton didnt contribute positively. Graham was our best player pre-substitution. Uncharacteristically missing the point. Rayas idiocy was undoubtedly the trigger and the catalyst for 2 dropped points, but it was 2 nil at that time, why the total collapse? And more importantly, its far from the first time its happened! Every time it does you are closed minded, you investigate what caused it on the day, mistake or whatever, oblivious to the theme that theres on overall problem occurring, we keep throwing away points from favourable positions! It is not the sign of an efficient, fully functioning side. And youve put it down to a fluke goal, a bad ref decision, an individual error, whatever it is, and you might be right on them individual days, but totally naive to the overall issue. We are 22 games in. In that, we threw 2 points away at Ipswich, we got hammered from a winning position at Bristol City, we threw away 2 points at home to Villa, we threw 2 points away to Forest, we lost from a winning position at Swansea, we threw away 2 points against a 10 man Boro and again we threw away 2 points today. And almost topping all of these off, we were a penalty hitting the crossbar away from throwing a way a 3-0 lead from our best 80 minutes of the season. 16 points that we have thrown away, compared to 31 that we have. Is it reasonable to expect all of them to have been kept? No. But is that a worryingly high amount of points thrown away? Definitely. Is it fitness, is it psychological, is it tactical, is it a lack of quality, probably a bit of everything but it needs addressing. Brereton will continue to be a massive talking point due to his price tag, whether you like it or not. When he came on today he was poor, whereas Graham again was superb. On Graham youve backed yourself into a corner constantly writing him off and even last week contesting my claim that hes been easily one of our star performers this season. People acknowledge that hes yet to start, and we are basing it on sub appearances, but that all adds to the mystery.

Come home from a horrible, cold, rainy and windy day again pissed off at Rovers and their inability to see games out which means that I cant see any chance of a faint play off push even at this stage. Can see our season fizzling out and being over very early unless our results in the upcoming run of difficult games is particularly poor and we have to look over our shoulder. I read that we have won 4 out of 11 home games, that simply isnt good enough considering the points we have thrown away or failed to get. Yes you can point to a mistake as a turning point but its not right to brush it under the carpet because its a common theme. 2 weeks in a row we have thrown 4 points away totally needlessly and after doing all the hard work. I hope Mowbray is investigating and trying to solve why we have such a weak underbelly to throw away so many points, rather than putting it down to a specific error or decision and brushing it under the carpet, theres a deeper problem there. Graham was superb as always, Reed also very good, thought Evans was pretty neat and tidy aswell in the centre. Armstrong bar an excellent finish for the goal was poor, Dack was a bright spark and tried but not his best day, Smallwood poor again, centre backs ok, The 2 full back areas are massive weaknesses for us, Nyambe has seemingly turned back into the fragile player that broke in under Coyle, what was he doing for the second? And we have no cover for him. Bell is an absolute embarrassment of a player, needs replacing in Jan because hes never good enough, Williams is the lesser of 2 evils but down either flank we are so susceptible and often caught out. For a manager whose gained a reputation for being conservative at the club, and one who plays 2 defensive midfielders who are very limited, especially Smallwood, we concede far too many goals. Rayas mistake wasnt the first silly error hes ever made nor will it be the last. His kicking was terrible, he had the excuse of the wind today at least. The difference between Graham and Brereton is night and day. You can bang on about different types of strikers but Brereton wasnt even challenging for headers, he wasnt holding it up, his touch is awful, his positioning when the ball goes wide is poor in that he often is far too close to the wide man and not in the centre. I must say that hes still to start, but I do find the whole situation a bit bizarre, and I am basing my optimism for him on his reputation and price tag rather than anything I have seen for him. That being said, Danny Graham is a superb Championship striker, another goal and he makes the best out of rubbish service at times. @Bigdoggsteel you ask why theres so much focus on Brereton, he cost 7m so there will always be a lot of focus on him, to consider him as a scapegoat is both in-factual and laughable, considering the main conversation is about what else we could have spent with the money rather than the player himself. And all the while, Rothwell and Palmer continue to kick their heels on the sidelines!

Our second striker has 9 goals in 17 games. Safe to say that moving him isnt the solution. As pointed out today, outside of Dack, Graham and Mulgrews set pieces, we have managed only 6 league goals. Mowbray tried to downplay it but its a massive concern.

Whilst I agree with you in terms of not quite understanding why people seem to have resigned themselves to Dack leaving in January. Im not naive enough to think anyone is unsellable. If its not even possible then you wouldnt even need to mention an asking price. Look at players like Bale and Ronaldo, even they were sold eventually as everyone has a price. It will be a monumental blow for us to lose someone we are so reliant on so lets hope hes here for the forseeable future.

The signings of Reed if possible and also of a new left back are 2 reinforcements I totally forgot about but 2 I totally agree with.

I hope there isnt as much priority and resources dedicated to bringing in a striker as is being suggested. You look up front, Grahams ability is unquestioned, and we have competition in the shape of a big money younger striker with Championship experience and plenty of promise. We are well stocked with them 2, and Armstrong is 3rd choice. I wouldnt necessarily turn away another striker as its a position whereby you cant really have someone filling in, and when behind or drawing in games it can be good to have additional options, but I just look at major imbalances elsewhere first. Out wide, the likes of Rothwell, Palmer, Armstrong and Conway have all failed to nail down a wide berth, the first 3 would prefer to play centrally but id suggest that all 4 are more effective on the left rather than on the right. Bennett is more conservative and can play either side really. We need an out and out right winger, not Chapman as an impact sub, to start games and give us some width and balance. Reed can play central every week. We also need a centre back more urgently than a striker. We have 2 good first teamers for 2 roles as we do with Graham as a striker, but beyond that bar Downing (still big question marks about Championship capability) we have no natural centre backs. We are also short of cover at right back. If I had to prioritise in Jan, i would suggest the following: 1. Right winger 2. Centre back to push Mulgrew and Lenihan 3. Right back to push Nyambe 4. Additional striker cover

I find it bizarre and hypocritical that you was advocating dropping Dack (attacking talisman and consistently has scored and assisted throughout this and last season) after a couple of poor games whereas you would make Bennett undroppable regardless of form. Out wide is possibly our weakest area in terms of having players to rely upon to score and assist to contribute.

To be fair I think there are no questions now regarding the team spirit across the team. So not sure that criticism is relevant any more. Bennett shouldnt be shoehorned in solely due to his attitude and spirit. He should only play when his form and performances dictate that he is the best choice in a certain position. He has the capability to be able to do that and is an important member of the squad but hes got to merit his place. For example, to merit a place wide he needs to provide more of an attacking threat and goals/assists. That being said, so do all of our wide men.