Agree. Palmer had a spark (which Brereton doesn't) and like others, don't think we saw the best of him as he was not played where he was best suited. It would. I'm in your court and said so at the time. Think Chaddy collapsed on the floor in fits of laughter at the time from which, seemingly, he hasn't recovered.

I wasn't a Bowyer fan and I think you are right with your observations about him at Rovers - we had a great opportunity and I think he bottled it. In fairness to Bowyer, I think he did a cracking job at Blackpool (as do a couple of friends who follow Blackpool). However, I think you are wrong to say "Mowbray's actual management is far superior to Bowyer's". Based on what I've seen of Mowbray, I doubt he would have done as well as Bowyer did at Blackpool under enormously difficult circumstances. Sadly, I don't think history will look too kindly on Mowbray's reign here.

The buck stops with the manager. The manager buys players, sells players, decides what areas to strengthen, coaches the players, selects the players and sets the team up with formation and tactics. Think most fans realise the priorities were a commanding centre half and a left back. Instead, we commit a fortune on an 'apprentice' striker who has added nothing to the team. And let's not forget that two of our 'big' three were signed by C o y l e ! Other than Dack, I think Mowbray's player trading has been very poor. Travis has proved he can cut it at this level and should be one of the first names down on the team sheet, however, it will be no surprise if Mowbray doesn't ship this 21 year old 'kid' off on loan somewhere. If Butterworth is that good in training, as Mowbray claims, why on earth has this 19 year old not been given his chance. I think the coaching, formation and tactics are all poor. I can't see either a structure or purpose to our play. Too many square pegs in round holes for starters. In my view, most of the football under Mowbray has been dire and some have the gall to criticise Big Sam. We are so susceptible to conceding in the last quarter of a game and I think that's down to poor game management (coaching) and a lack of both physical and mental fitness (for which the manager has responsibility). I'd actually take Bowyer over Mowbray because at the end of the day he did bring what turned out to be some very good players into the club.

"but I’m not sat here saying we’re going to be relying on young 19-year-old kids" Sadly, I think this speaks volumes about Mowbray. It's simple, if they are good enough they are old enough. Take Lewis Travis, he is 21 years old and I think Mowbray talks about him like he's a fresh faced 16 year old. Goodness knows what our promising young lads must think and is it any wonder Mahoney left.

I am not the one confused. Yep, Liverpool have some fine prospects and tonight played a 16, 17 and 18 year old. Posters on here keep saying that in Brereton we have a fine young prospect, however, 19 year old Brereton, who will cost the club £10million+ over his contract term, is deemed not ready or not good enough, or both, to start a league game for us. Now you tell me who is confused?

If we beat Newcastle, and I think we will, Watford will prove much sterner opposition - they are a very decent unit.

Spot on. Couldn't believe how Liverpool approached City game. City defence was there to be carved open as demonstrated when Mane got through and hit post.

Show me where I have said that? Aiming for survival is not good enough. Aiming for a top eight finish is not an unreasonable aspiration. Last time we were promoted from Division One (then Division Three) under Howard Kendall, we finished 4th the following season failing to get into the top division on goal difference only. If I recall then, fans weren't talking about a second consecutive promotion, however, the team had momentum from the previous season and with shrewd management, tactics and recruitment (1 fee paid and 4 frees) we went very, very close. If you have an able manager who is ambitious and driven, a manger who gets his recruitment right, a manager who is is tactically sound and a manager who is able to set up a team (not square pegs in round holes) then you have a chance. Tonight at Wolves, Liverpool have three lads playing who are 16, 17 and 18. If you are good enough then you are old enough. I am a supporter who is fed up of what I think is shyte football and tactics with Rovers, an unambitious manager who talks about a promotion push in several windows time and a £7million+ 19 year old who the manager is 'nursing' when in reality I suspect BB will prove to be a signing as disastrous as other strikers like Davies, Ward and Grabbi etc.

Well someone posted the 'official' link some weeks ago on here which stated £7million PLUS add ons - think it might even have been Sharpe and LT from Rovers' side together with a Nottingham article. So if the fee is 'undisclosed' how can there be an 'official' view. Irrespective, it's a bloody lot of money for a bench warming teenager.

Can you tell me another 19 year striker in the Championship who cost £7million+ but is deemed not good enough to start a league game?

Well what do you think?

Posters have provided links on this site since August from Forest / Rovers' sides confirming it's £7m plus add ons. Anyhow, let's not get uptight about the odd million. If BB is so highly rated why on earth is he not deemed good enough to start a league game for us. We've even had Dack (and even Palmer I think) playing the striker's role in Graham's absence. I've seen the lad, not for a full match as that would be as rare as rocking horse shyte, and he's shown me virtually nothing. In all honesty, IMV, he looks no better than a free transfer gamble.

and you think it's 'considered' to throw £11million+ (fee and wages) at a player who Mowbray clearly thinks is not good enough to start a league game for us?

Really? I form my opinions on both what I see and what I have seen. I have seen managers at Rovers right through the good, the bad and the ugly spectrum and in my opinion, Mowbray gets away with, metaphorically, football management murder. As I posted earlier, given the trials and tribulations of the Rao era, I think there are too many fans quite willing to bask in a sea of calmness and mediocrity which is what I think Mowbray offers.

Were you about when Howard Kendall got us promoted from the old Third Division (now League 1) in 1979/80 and only missed out on promotion to the First Division (now PL) the following season on goal difference (and if memory serves me correct, we were never lower than eighth)? That is what good managers with ambition, drive, shrewd recruitment and a plan do. Kendall also did it on buttons unlike Mowbray who threw £10million+ at it in the summer and for what? Kendall's shopping list the season after promotion from the old Third Division, again if memory serves me right, comprised one player we paid a fee for (Speight at approx. £40,000) and a number of frees including Marshall Burke, Viv Busby and Roger De Vries (may also have included David Hamilton). In my view, Mowbray cannot hold a candle to the likes of Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith, Howard Kendall, Bobby Saxton, and Don Mackay etc. They all worked under circumstances (financial and facilities) far worse than Mowbray's but all, in their own way, brought a measure of excitement and success to Rovers. With the backing he's had, I think Mowbray should have made a much better fist of this season. In my view, it was a huge mistake extending his contract as I think he's a bit of a managerial dinosaur and, in my opinion, we are going nowhere with him and I certainly don't want to have to wait several transfer windows for this to be confirmed.

Yep, Duffy was raw when he joined us but there was evidence there was a footballer there and he cost a mere few hundred grand!!! As for Brereton, I really, really struggle to see what on earth possessed Mowbray to commit Rovers to a £10million+ plus deal. And if anyone mentions England U19/20, just remember Jason Lowe skippered that lot!!!

I didn't say that. As a supporter, I don't want a manager telling me it will take several transfer windows to mount a promotion push. This is a manager who has just spent £10million+ in the last window and in the main, I think we play shyte football and I can see little evidence of a playing structure / philosophy emerging. I think we are light years away from mounting a promotion push. In my book, Mowbray flatters to deceive.

Think you are wrong. If Rovers survive by finishing 4th from bottom then it's been a very, very poor season. We are not the Accrington Stanley of the Championship! When a club gets promotion then it should have momentum and look to push on. If Mowbray really thinks it will take a few windows to mount a promotion push then in my opinion, he is not our man. Get a manager in with a 'can do' attitude, some drive, passion and confidence in his own ability. Didn't take Warnock long to turn Cardiff around!

Understudy!?!? Brereton has yet to start a league game when Graham has been unavailable !!

No one committed to a £10million+ (fee and wages) for Dack at 19!!!!!!! No matter which way you or others dress it up, I think we've signed a dud and someone has dropped one big clanger.

Good and pertinent post from savage90. Good player recruitment is down to the manager's personal knowledge, the range of the manager's contacts and an effective scouting system. I think Mowbray's player trading, excluding Dack, has been poor. I think given the trials and tribulations since Venky's became our owners, our fans, to a degree, have been conditioned to gleefully accept mediocrity. I think the club's operating structure has been dumbed down and, in my opinion, this is also evidenced in our medical team and the management of injured players. In any organisation, the employment of quality staff in key positions is vital. If you employ second and third raters, you wont move forward.

Think you are on a wing and a prayer there! If that's strategic planning at Rovers then God help us. Can't believe you are buying this moonshine.

Think Moyes was like that at Everton - suffered from the transfer yips.