[Archived] Rovers Young Guns

[Paul Mellelieu]

What you've actually been saying for just four years, is that you know the youth players better than the club management.

[rover6]

Paul, when people lambast Steve McClaren for stupid squad and team selections, are they claiming to have seen more of Jermaine Jenas or Phil Neville or Frank Lampard on a training pitch than him? When Graeme Souness signed Lorenzo Amoruso, were all the Rovers fans on this board who moaned incessantly about his lack of pace, concentration and suitability, claiming to have seen Amo play live more than Rovers scouts and Souey himself?

I may not be in possession of more than an iota of the full facts. However, I have one advantage over the club management and that is that I am looking at the problem objectively. Mark Hughes and Co. are entrenched, to much of a degree, in the culture and custom of the ENglish football fraternity. "Custom is King o'er all" somebody once said, and I think that this is the case with the approach of the youth system. But custom is not always right and you don't realise it's not right until you take the effort to consider and debate its validity.

I would make the same criticism against Alex Ferguson that I have made of Hughes and Souey. He buys plebs like Kleberson and Quinton Fortune and plays them a lot. He has a immense talent like Guissepe Rossi on his hands and he loathes to give him a chance. Why? The same old prejudice that pervades British footballl. Generally, experience is favoured over youthful promise. It's why Amdy Faye and Djimi Traore earn their living here and aren't kicking their heels on the bench of FC La Rochelle.

[bob fleming]

I have one advantage over the club management and that is that I am looking at the problem objectively.

I can't think of anything contructive to say about that.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Read this carefully: I trust Mark Hughes' judgement about youth players over your's.

Please explain why i should think otherwise.

Just spotted your point about Fergie. Now there's a manager who's never given young players a chance.

[pleasure]

The same old prejudice that pervades British footballl. Generally, experience is favoured over youthful promise. It's why Amdy Faye and Djimi Traore earn their living here and aren't kicking their heels on the bench of FC La Rochelle.

that's an excellent point, rover6 and i think that's true of most managers, but i think MH has more about him than most. if the acadamy players are good enough, i believe they'll get a chance.

there are also a few premiership managers, who persist in buying average african & eastern block players over rather than give youth a chance - but not because they are better players, it's more to do with them being cheaper and bungs are offered.

[pksrover]

Paul, when people lambast Steve McClaren for stupid squad and team selections, are they claiming to have seen more of Jermaine Jenas or Phil Neville or Frank Lampard on a training pitch than him? When Graeme Souness signed Lorenzo Amoruso, were all the Rovers fans on this board who moaned incessantly about his lack of pace, concentration and suitability, claiming to have seen Amo play live more than Rovers scouts and Souey himself?

But most people who have a go at McClaren for his 'stupid squad and team selections' have actually seen the players perform for both club and country either live or on the telly! That is something you haven't when it comes to the Rovers academy players.

I would make the same criticism against Alex Ferguson that I have made of Hughes and Souey. He buys plebs like Kleberson and Quinton Fortune and plays them a lot. He has a immense talent like Guissepe Rossi on his hands and he loathes to give him a chance. Why? The same old prejudice that pervades British footballl. Generally, experience is favoured over youthful promise. It's why Amdy Faye and Djimi Traore earn their living here and aren't kicking their heels on the bench of FC La Rochelle.

So Ferguson have never given his younger players a chance to play? Have you ever heard about players like David Beckham (I believe that he is well known to most people), Paul Scholes, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs? The success they achieved in the late 90's was a lot down to these players. I can also mention players like Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Kieron Richardson, Luke Chadwick and several more as youngsters that Ferguson have given a chance in the man utd first team. Do you still want to criticize him for not give the younger players at the club a chance?

I'm sure Hughes and his staff will give our youngsters a chance when they are good enough to play at senior level. When we play at the level we do, competing for top 6 league finish and cups, we have to play players that we KNOW are good enough at that level. Along the way opportunities will come along for the kids who are good enough, don't you worry rovers6. But please stop saying that you know better than Hughes and his staff, cos you clearly don't.

[Hypo-Luxa]

But most people who have a go at McClaren for his 'stupid squad and team selections' have actually seen the players perform for both club and country either live or on the telly! That is something you haven't when it comes to the Rovers academy players.

So Ferguson have never given his younger players a chance to play? Have you ever heard about players like David Beckham (I believe that he is well known to most people), Paul Scholes, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs? The success they achieved in the late 90's was a lot down to these players. I can also mention players like Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Kieron Richardson, Luke Chadwick and several more as youngsters that Ferguson have given a chance in the man utd first team. Do you still want to criticize him for not give the younger players at the club a chance?

I'm sure Hughes and his staff will give our youngsters a chance when they are good enough to play at senior level. When we play at the level we do, competing for top 6 league finish and cups, we have to play players that we KNOW are good enough at that level. Along the way opportunities will come along for the kids who are good enough, don't you worry rovers6. But please stop saying that you know better than Hughes and his staff, cos you clearly don't.

I think you hit upon the reason a lot of fans are despondent about the youth set-up. These are usually peaks and valleys to developmental classes. Right now I think we're in a valley but maybe on the incline of a peak. ManU was very fortunate to have that class of players who sent them tops in the league, but now their 'talent' is pretty mediocre. O'Shea, Brown, Fletcher and even Richardson to a degree are not the top end of the youth spectrum. Same with Rovers, after the Dunn, Duff, Jansen (weren't Beattie and Given also in that class before they were moved on?) class there hasn't been much to speak of.

Plus since we are a Top 6 fighting club there is no way that Hughes can sacrifice points to try out a youngster. And since Hughes also wants to compete in every Competition put in front of him he won't name a side in a Cup competition like the Brummies did last week.

[Dunnfc]

I think you hit upon the reason a lot of fans are despondent about the youth set-up. These are usually peaks and valleys to developmental classes. Right now I think we're in a valley but maybe on the incline of a peak. ManU was very fortunate to have that class of players who sent them tops in the league, but now their 'talent' is pretty mediocre. O'Shea, Brown, Fletcher and even Richardson to a degree are not the top end of the youth spectrum. Same with Rovers, after the Dunn, Duff, Jansen (weren't Beattie and Given also in that class before they were moved on?) class there hasn't been much to speak of.

Plus since we are a Top 6 fighting club there is no way that Hughes can sacrifice points to try out a youngster. And since Hughes also wants to compete in every Competition put in front of him he won't name a side in a Cup competition like the Brummies did last week.

We bought Jansen from Crystal palace for 4.1 mill.

Young guns well weve got Martin Olsson coming through and yes we bought him but weve nurtured him and we are making him into a good player with our facilities and we have young Mamadi Keita coming through who looks a decent prospect. I also think Treacy is a good player a winger with a good cross (Dont ask MGP lol) and this was apparent when he was on the bench last year against Reading which obviously was shared by Hughes. I also believe Nolan had a game against Nancy last year in which he came on as a sub for todd i think and did well and isnt Nolan an irish u21? Gunnar Nielsen who weve bought is looking a decent prospect too and only Bobby Downes and the facilities can make him better which im sure you would agree with, i also noticed Zak Jones,Frank Fielding are out on loan and Fielding is playing brilliantly not sure about Jones though. Paul Gallagher is also at Preston and even though hes 23 is still someone with a chance of being a good first team player for Rovers.

[HairwayToSteven]

So Ferguson have never given his younger players a chance to play? Have you ever heard about players like David Beckham (I believe that he is well known to most people), Paul Scholes, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs? The success they achieved in the late 90's was a lot down to these players. I can also mention players like Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Kieron Richardson, Luke Chadwick and several more as youngsters that Ferguson have given a chance in the man utd first team. Do you still want to criticize him for not give the younger players at the club a chance?

Going out on a limb here, but:

I think rover6 was making a point by naming Sir Alex. He would even criticize Ferguson who's known for using younguns and making them progress into fantastic players, because he's also been using the likes of Fortune and Cleberson instead of blooding young players. So, although Fergie has been at the forefront of blooding young players from his youth set up, there's still room for improvement. I'm not defending rover6's views in any way, just thought some may have misunderstood him.

[briansol]

I think rover6 has several valid points. It must be allowed to question that there could be improvements on fielding the younger players more often.

E.g Martin Olsson who seems to be a good prospect and given a chance. He's only playing because Bruno Bernier is injured. Bernier is a player I couldn't quite understand Hughes buying. Unlike Samba he's not even young and his club seemed a bit eager to get rid.

If you look to Aston Villa's grooming of their excellent Academy there must be some improvements to be made. Villa has had a constant stream of half decent and good players coming through consistently over the last years and Rovers' academy has always been on par resultwise at least. Players like Ridgewell, Davis, Cahill, Gardner, Agbonlahor, Moore brothers, Osbourne proves it's possible to run a successful academy. It also seems Villa are making more of an effort on utilizing young players instead of squad playes. Their squad seems to consist of a combination of "big players" and young players, and not too many mediocre players to make up the numbers.

Could there be an improvement like giving the likes of Kane a run out in the league cup rather than sticking Ooijer out there? Kane has proved class in Belgium. I think rover6 raises a valid question, and I don't think he's trying to say he knows beter than Hughes as some of you seem so offended for.

I think Hughes get the majority of his decisions right and is a superb manager. However I'm pretty confident his persistent playing of Dickov(in his last season) and the decision to give him a new contract (which he luckily refused) was wrong. I also think it would improve the team by replacing Mokoena soon.

[Dunnfc]

Middlesborough, Villa and Citeh are all good examples of giving youth a chance, but by doing this look at there league positions in recent years and also look at the situations these players play under i.e injurys/suspensions or they impress in a cup game because there club dosent take it seriously. Rovers dont really give the youth a chance because we wont to pick a strong squad for each game and win and we treat every cup with respect.

[ABBEY]

Going out on a limb here, but:

I think rover6 was making a point by naming Sir Alex. He would even criticize Ferguson who's known for using younguns and making them progress into fantastic players, because he's also been using the likes of Fortune and Cleberson instead of blooding young players. So, although Fergie has been at the forefront of blooding young players from his youth set up, there's still room for improvement. I'm not defending rover6's views in any way, just thought some may have misunderstood him.

hahaha critising fergie.hahaahahhaha as much as i cant be with him look at his record....leagues,cups ,champs league...look at the players he played as kids ....but hey rover6 knows best yea?

[briansol]

Middlesborough, Villa and Citeh are all good examples of giving youth a chance, but by doing this look at there league positions in recent years and also look at the situations these players play under i.e injurys/suspensions or they impress in a cup game because there club dosent take it seriously. Rovers dont really give the youth a chance because we wont to pick a strong squad for each game and win and we treat every cup with respect.

The clubs you mention seems to have a policy of fast tracking youngster through to PL football. Blaming their league position on overplaying youngsters can be valid to a degree, but these clubs also have had their bacth of rotten senior players. Gems like Downing, Wright Phillips, Barton, Richards, Agbalanhor have come through and a lot of other decent players. Just look to the blend City have now with good senior pros and youngster like Richards, Johnson and Onohua.

I don't think we've missed out with any of the youngsters that have left, but players like Sergio Peter could not get a game even when Gamst was the worst player in the PL before Christmas last year. Tony Kane and Treacey has been highly spoken of but not given chances to prove themselves at senior level. There should be possibilities for players like this and the upside is far greater than bringing in someone like Bernier, who's old and obviously was always considered a squad player.

I think Derbyshire showed last year by gradually coming from bench to starting matches that youngsters can adapt if given chances. In Kane's case, he's played half a season in Belgium's top division and made a great impression. Belgium is on par with the Swiss league where Bernier came from, so the argument about unproven is no more valid than any foreigner who's played in one of the middle tier leagues in Europe.

[Dunnfc]

The clubs you mention seems to have a policy of fast tracking youngster through to PL football. Blaming their league position on overplaying youngsters can be valid to a degree, but these clubs also have had their bacth of rotten senior players. Gems like Downing, Wright Phillips, Barton, Richards, Agbalanhor have come through and a lot of other decent players. Just look to the blend City have now with good senior pros and youngster like Richards, Johnson and Onohua.

I don't think we've missed out with any of the youngsters that have left, but players like Sergio Peter could not get a game even when Gamst was the worst player in the PL before Christmas last year. Tony Kane and Treacey has been highly spoken of but not given chances to prove themselves at senior level. There should be possibilities for players like this and the upside is far greater than bringing in someone like Bernier, who's old and obviously was always considered a squad player.

I think Derbyshire showed last year by gradually coming from bench to starting matches that youngsters can adapt if given chances. In Kane's case, he's played half a season in Belgium's top division and made a great impression. Belgium is on par with the Swiss league where Bernier came from, so the argument about unproven is no more valid than any foreigner who's played in one of the middle tier leagues in Europe.

Thats a good post youve made but in all honestly Berner only cost us 20 k and i doubt hes on a big wage and he can play lb or lm so i guess its all about having options.

Kane was on the bench last night, i hope he gets a chance soon though, Peter is quality but hes been injured recently and weve got Dunn on lm aswell so thats another option. These options are good as it shows weve got depth in the squad.

[Oakland]

Bruno returns for Reserves

[Ronin]

Bruno returns for Reserves

Good to see a fair few U21 internationals on our books and in that lineup.

[Oakland]

Half-Time: Middlesbrough Reserves 0 Blackburn Reserves 1

Rigters

[Alan75]

Final Score v Boro

[Hypo-Luxa]

This is no slight on Warnock or Emerton, but I can't wait to see Kane and Olsson on the same pitch together. They seem to have very bright futures indeed with Rovers.

[Silencio]

I worry about Kane getting the opportunity. Is he not 20-21 now? I think he needs to go to a Championship club and do well to have a chance. I think his progress is clogged up by Ooijer (who I'd say is Hughes worst signing) being Emerton's back up.

[rover6]

A word of advice that MGP may (should) privately have to these youngsters with sights on first team football - don't magnanimously accept being left out.

Hughes has ruefully admitted that Gamst's perma-smile made it easy to leave out during that 3 month period where Gamst was on the bench but never made it onto the pitch.

[Oakland]

Shrimps suffering at the break

Blackburn Rovers 4 Morecambe 1 - half-time

...looks like Rigters scored again, and got injured?(sub out 32min), that leave us with only two healthy striker?

[Dave S]

Rovers finally won 5 - 1 against Morecambe reserves.

A decent run out for some of the potential future first teamers.

Treacys second goal was against the run of play. He sprinted down the right side of the pitch cut inside and curled a very good left footed shot into the keepers right hand top corner of the goal.

Berner was composed at left back. He went on a powerful run in the second half which resulted in a good cross which the waiting strikers just couldn't get to. The ball was turned back in by Jamie Clarke (I think) and Devita headed the cross infront of Drench for the fifth. A tidy clinical fifth goal.

All round a very entertaining game, very wet conditions in the first half. I was expecting a tough game from Morecambe who fielded several first team squad players. But the Rovers team was up for the challenge.

Before the game I had said that if the players want to make an impact and progress in the game, a match against Morecambe was an opprotunity to impress. Simply, if they couldn't compete against league 2 opposition then they would have a great deal of work to do to become professionals at a higher level of football.

The Rovers were very good, played decent football and were up for the physical aspect.

Andy Taylor played his best game for a long time at centre half.

Treacy was very impressive. Peter had a decent game. The subs Haworth and Judge both played on the wings and both played quite well. Four decent wing performances albeit at a lower level of football.

Rigters was subbed with a knock to the knee and had played ok scoring a well taken opportunity early on. He wasted an earlier chance when he would have been better passing to several players in better positions.

[den]

Premiership giants Manchester City and Blackburn Rovers are leading the race to sign Principality Welsh Premier club Llanelli`s prodigy Jordan Follows.

"Meanwhile, Blackburn are believed to be in the process of taking Follows (pictured) on trial for a week at Ewood Park, with South Wales scout Tony Quaglia keeping old friend Mark Hughes in touch with Follows' progress at Stebonheath Park."

[philipl]

Central defender Kevin Pezzoni was apparently outstanding when Germany u-19s beat England u-19s and made his debut for Germany u-21s as a second half substitute.

Sounds like Treacy was pretty decent in a woeful Irish u-21s that lost in Podgorica last night and was unlucky not to score with a powerful shot from distance. Eddie Nolan had a full 90 minutes for the Republic in the same game.