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[Archived] Poor Discipline


Jammy

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And even by posting stories like these at a page like BBC Sport, another 5 referees (minimum) will make us 'happy' with

1) A penalty against after a blatant dive

2) A straight red after 'an opponent striker got fouled by our last defender' at the edge of THEIR box after a corner.

3) A second yellow because a Blackburn player has his sock pulled down after a tackle

4) No penalty while Benni is being killed by two Everton defenders with an axe and a chainsaw

5) No red after Jose Mourinho steered the Manchester - Clitheroe train straight over Brad Friedel when Frank Lampard takes a penalty.

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Im not sure we can really argue that much. A lot of the cards have been unwarrented but I would say broadly speaking, blue and white specs aside, we are the club thats most likely to pick up yellows in the league merely due to the way we play. Ultimately its a good thing though as whilst we are just about the most 'violent' club in the league, to use Wenger's provocative language, we are not at all dirty and we are the most physically competive. Hughs isn't going to change the formula as it would make us lose a large amount of points imo.

The only thing to worry abbout is what sort of action the FA will take if we come bottom again, which I am sure is quite likely. Points deduction? I hope not.

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I suggest given the pathetic and obviously skewed standard of refereeing nowadays that we all take it as a complement. I'm damned proud of our teams behaviour and bearing. True we are very competative but I'd not want them to be anything else.

If the gobshites in authority had anything about them they'd reimburse us with God knows how many points due to our complete disinclination to dive, fake injury and cheat our opponents into yellow and red cards. We and possibly Reading were certainly the fairest and most honest team in the Prem last season thats for sure. Why refs do not appear to place any value those traits is beyond me.

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I suggest given the pathetic and obviously skewed standard of refereeing nowadays that we all take it as a complement. I'm damned proud of our teams behaviour and bearing. True we are very competative but I'd not want them to be anything else.

If the gobshites in authority had anything about them they'd reimburse us with God knows how many points due to our complete disinclination to dive, fake injury and cheat our opponents into yellow and red cards. We and possibly Reading were certainly the fairest and most honest team in the Prem last season thats for sure. Why refs do not appear to place any value those traits is beyond me.

Unfortunately, referees do not take fairness and honesty into consideration, but mainly Law 12.

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Unfortunately, referees do not take fairness and honesty into consideration, but mainly Law 12.

Difficult to interpret I'd imagine without the benefit of having played the game to any decent standard after the cub scouts league.

I need to offer no other opinion other than to cite the example last night when Richards leapt goodness knows how high into the air to send a thumping header forwards before crash landing on some unfortunate German opponent. Result foul against Richards . Pathetic in the extreme.... and unfortunately totally predictable.

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Is there a formula as to how they decide how much to fine a club?

We seem to have been fined a lot. Just wondered how they decided that. Can the FA just think - We dont really like Rovers so lets give them the biggest bill or is it x amount of pounds because you got x number of cards over the baseline?

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I presume they judge each case on it's own and take into consideration previous discipline.

Rovers need to be careful as this is becoming a regular occurance. Having said that I agree with Joey that we are not a 'dirty' team and although the likes of Arse Wenger like to have a pop at us I just think it down to the physical side of our game which I believe is needed in this league.

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I do find it strange that we are still bottom of the fair play list. Personally, I son't feel that we play any tougher than a fair few other Premiership teams and we certainly aren't a dirty team. I wonder what proportion of our disciplinary points Neill, Savage and Mokoena contribued. Maybe with Neill gone and Mokoena on the bench, we will do better this season.

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Difficult to interpret I'd imagine without the benefit of having played the game to any decent standard after the cub scouts league.

I need to offer no other opinion other than to cite the example last night when Richards leapt goodness knows how high into the air to send a thumping header forwards before crash landing on some unfortunate German opponent. Result foul against Richards . Pathetic in the extreme.... and unfortunately totally predictable.

Foul given for 'Dangerous Play' - as indicated by the indirect free kick used to re-start the game. Nothing unfair about that - it was dangerous play.

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Foul given for 'Dangerous Play' - as indicated by the indirect free kick used to re-start the game. Nothing unfair about that - it was dangerous play.

Rubbish. A superbly timed action designed to win the ball first and foremost and also to let your opponent know that he is in for a hard match. Leave insipid and spirit-free action for the netball court. Whats Richards supposed to do? Politely say 'excuse me old chap would you mind standing aside whilst I jump and head that ball?' The ball was in play and he won it. Dangerous play? bollax.... dangerous play is what Van Persie was guilty of last weekend with his serious attempt to fracture Nelsens leg. If refs share your views its no wonder we are bottom of the Fairplay league.

................ Incidentally they should change the name of that to the 'Cheaters and Divers Charter' cos thats the way to stay in the top half of it. A true 'Fair Play league' would make far more sense (especially in the light of Sundays match) if there were points allocated to take into account stoppage time, time wasting and attempts to get opponents cautioned by conning the refs. Thats a lot closer to what constitutes fair play in my book.

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Rubbish. A superbly timed action designed to win the ball first and foremost and also to let your opponent know that he is in for a hard match. Leave insipid and spirit-free action for the netball court. Whats Richards supposed to do? Politely say 'excuse me old chap would you mind standing aside whilst I jump and head that ball?' The ball was in play and he won it. Dangerous play? bollax.... dangerous play is what Van Persie was guilty of last weekend with his serious attempt to fracture Nelsens leg. If refs share your views its no wonder we are bottom of the Fairplay league.

................ Incidentally they should change the name of that to the 'Cheaters and Divers Charter' cos thats the way to stay in the top half of it. A true 'Fair Play league' would make far more sense (especially in the light of Sundays match) if there were points allocated to take into account stoppage time, time wasting and attempts to get opponents cautioned by conning the refs. Thats a lot closer to what constitutes fair play in my book.

Very well said Theno, I agree on both counts. What is happenign to football is also as bad as if Rugby were suddenly to be converted to touch tackles only! I hate the protection that goalkeepers are given. True, playing in goal myself I love being able to get a free kick for next to nothing, but when a player even going within a metre of the keeper is given as a foul, it is one of the most frustrating things in the world.

Secondly, while it would be pretty impossible to create a fair play league that took into consideration time wasting, diving, the conning of the ref etc, measures need to be taken to stop it. Arsenal were a disgrace last week, yet they will no doubt be near the top of the fairplay league. It never used to be the way with Arsenal in recent times, only since Wenger took over.

While I'm at it, another one of my most hated things is when players are allowed to take the ball into the corner and "shield" it from the opposition. This shouldn't be legal! It isn't "shielding," it's bloody obstruction! It wouldn't be allowed for a second in the middle of the pitch, so it shouldn't be allowed in the corner. I reckon a team facing possible relegation should do is try this tactic all game against some of the bigger clubs that seem to do this on a regular basis.

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Remarkeably even stats yesterday except that we got 2 bookings to Evertons nil. There were plenty of cases for Everton to have a man cautioned with MGP in particular being singled out for the rough stuff but a card was never shown.

Conversely MGP was cautioned in the dying stages whilst attempting to organise the troops in the box for a long throw! Unbelievable! He was waving his team mates forward into the box! A long throw into the opponents area is NOT a time wasting ploy but rather an attacking one.

Yet again evidence that most referees have simply never played the game to any standard and as a result have simply NOT developed a basic understanding of it.

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And there was me celebrating we'd come top o the dirty team league again!!

I thought we'd have guaranteed a place in Europe again cos of it!!!

Seriously though - we work harder and make more tackles than any other side in the prem - so it stands to reason we may continue to be at the top of the league.

The stupidity of it shows though especially when United play - should concede 2 penalties against Spuds = 2 red cards and get away with one corner! and Mr P Nevillle can make 2 bookable challenges within 20 seconds and get away with nowt too!

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  • 3 months later...

Time to bring this up again, apologies if the discussion goes on elsewhere. But:

Another ridiculous sending off last night. I don't care whether the first yellow was cheap, yellow means WARNING - DO NOT DO IT AGAIN!

So Brett chooses to hack down their winger off the ball, just after we've scored two goals to get back in the game.

19.08: Ryan Nelsen sent off for two bookable offences - the 2nd one clear as ice. (the 1st dubious?)

02.09: Tugay sent off for two bookable offences - the 2nd one totally unnecessary again.

We then go two months with very few yellows, and no reds, until..

11.11: David Dunn sent off for two bookable offences. The 1st a poor decision by the referee, the 2nd hacking down Ronaldo on the break.

28.11: Nelsen sent off for holding back Agbonhalgeiajg in the penalty area.

15.12: Emerton sent off last night.

That's excluding all the yellows we've earned.. Five sending offs in 17 matches, and four of them are two yellows.

I can respect the fact that we need to compete, even with a yellow card, but it does not help anyone to cynically hack down players or hold them back when the referee is watching closely. It's just pointless, they know they'll be sent off, and neither of the four 2nd yellows has really been necessary either. It's not like Ronaldo was bound to score when Dunn hacked him down in the midfield area, or that winger last night.

Just makes last night's defeat even worse, and with Ooijer injured we'll need to reshuffle for next match. ARGH!

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That's excluding all the yellows we've earned.. Five sending offs in 17 matches, and four of them are two yellows.

I can respect the fact that we need to compete, even with a yellow card, but it does not help anyone to cynically hack down players or hold them back when the referee is watching closely. It's just pointless, they know they'll be sent off, and neither of the four 2nd yellows has really been necessary either. It's not like Ronaldo was bound to score when Dunn hacked him down in the midfield area, or that winger last night.

Just makes last night's defeat even worse, and with Ooijer injured we'll need to reshuffle for next match. ARGH!

I agree with you on the bad discipline when already on a yellow. I just have to remind myself that we do not have a team of thugs though, the refs decisions against us are shocking to say the least.

Cant Tony Kane play right back?

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