[Archived] Gun Law Debate: Please keep posts civil and conversational

[ultrablue]

Don't worry about it. They are pretty big numbers.

EDIT: but you really should look up what inflation is. Try using the "Constant dollars" table instead

and watch your imaginary surplus disappear.

[Steve Moss]

Though I must add, I don't see how you can be against it. Prisoners are 'paid' in privileges and gain skillsets to use when they get out. Occasionally they even get full vocational training. It can only be a good thing?

It appears to be coerced (i.e. slave) labor. If there are adverse consequences for refusing to work, I'm opposed. In this case, most of the articles agree that if they refuse to work they are locked in isolation cells. I'm in favor of isolation cells and other "cruel" treatment for the worst offenders, but if these prisoners are in a work program I think its safe to assume they aren't high security risks.

However, if it is voluntary or otherwise encouraged with positive incentives (getting outside, TV privileges, even time off a sentence, etc), I'm in favor in limited circumstances. I have no problem with volunteer prisoners walking pound dogs, painting graffiti, mowing parks, picking up trash. I'm opposed to prisoners working for profit corporations, taking jobs away from law abiding citizens.

So if prisoners are doing their own laundry and picking up trash, that's one thing. Selling them (their labor) to multinationals is another. We aren't that far removed from the Roman Empire as we'd like to think, apparently.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I watched the video (it helps that I find Stephen Fry amusing) and then did some research.

Federal prisoners do manufacturer certain goods which are consumed by the USA federal government. This does appear to include helmets (44,000 of which were recalled) and other incidental military equipment. Federal prisoners also make federal office furniture, etc. Here's the link which describes it in a bit more detail- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Prison_Industries

Texas and California do something similar, apparently, with their prison labor, and they are also restricted to only selling to government entities.

Frankly I'm surprised at how extensive it is. I believe it is morally wrong, to boot.

I owe you an apology, Mike Ellison.

I'm getting worried about you Steve, you find Steven Fry amusing ? Next thing you know you'll be reading Das Kapital ! You Pinko !

[thenodrog]

It appears to be coerced (i.e. slave) labor. If there are adverse consequences for refusing to work, I'm opposed. In this case, most of the articles agree that if they refuse to work they are locked in isolation cells. I'm in favor of isolation cells and other "cruel" treatment for the worst offenders, but if these prisoners are in a work program I think its safe to assume they aren't high security risks.

However, if it is voluntary or otherwise encouraged with positive incentives (getting outside, TV privileges, even time off a sentence, etc), I'm in favor in limited circumstances. I have no problem with volunteer prisoners walking pound dogs, painting graffiti, mowing parks, picking up trash. I'm opposed to prisoners working for profit corporations, taking jobs away from law abiding citizens.

So if prisoners are doing their own laundry and picking up trash, that's one thing. Selling them (their labor) to multinationals is another. We aren't that far removed from the Roman Empire as we'd like to think, apparently.

And how much does it cost the US taxpayer to keep one prisoner for a year? It's all part of paying ones dues to society imo.

[Steve Moss]

And how much does it cost the US taxpayer to keep one prisoner for a year? It's all part of paying ones dues to society imo.

A lot.

But we have to remember who we are. I'm not soft, by any means. I'd line up the enemies of my country, in addition traitors, murders, rapists and pedophiles, and gladly machine gun them down. But we should not coerce labor. Slavery, of any sort, is corrodes the soul and should not be what we are about.

[thenodrog]

A lot.

But we have to remember who we are. I'm not soft, by any means. I'd line up the enemies of my country, in addition traitors, murders, rapists and pedophiles, and gladly machine gun them down. But we should not coerce labor. Slavery, of any sort, is corrodes the soul and should not be what we are about.

Couldn't disagree more, and I must say that post informs me that you possess a strange viewpoint. Machine gun them but dont expect them to stitch a few mailbags and break a rock or two?

Anyway most people in prison don't care much about the wellbeing of their soul do they? We keep hearing that criminals have a debt to society .... so make them pay it off.

[Steve Moss]

I suppose it is a strange world view.

There are broad categories of criminals (murderers, rapists, pedophiles, kidnappers) that I have no problem with executing.

But there is something which strikes me as wrong about forcing prisoners to work for corporate America. I don't like the idea of slave labor being used to produce for profit goods. It takes jobs away from law abiding citizens, places normal businesses at a competitive disadvantage, encourages corporations to promote incarceration as a solution to the crime problem, and turns law enforcement into overseers of coerced labor. I don't like it.

It if it is any consolation, I'm fine with volunteer prison labor painting over graffiti, mowing park grass, picking up trash, etc.

[thenodrog]

It if it is any consolation, I'm fine with volunteer prison labor painting over graffiti, mowing park grass, picking up trash, etc.

Thats better now Steve.

[elurgyexecyZI]

Я собираюсь ехать дальше, как только отдохнет лошадь. Я вытащил из мешочка ломтик вяленого мяса и начал жевать потихоньку. Хорошие связи с властями нескольких штатов. Вот когда пригодился бы мне Петькин письмовник! , Я люблю разумные доводы. А может, накрыло и раздавило снежной массой. Спасай товарища, если даже при этом ты можешь погибнуть. После выписки из больницы он не спал понастоящему уже двое суток. Да, пожалуй, согласился Брендан. Отсюда для походника начинается Антарктида.

Дзержинский глядит в светлоголубое небо, вдыхает прохладный живительный воздух. Нищие, которые по несколько дней ничего не ели, жадно пожирали суп. Я должна рассказать тебе о Мушке и диком коне, которого вы зовете. Война не будет продолжаться вечно, мессир барон. Безотчетно шептали его губы. Я не надменный и повелевать вами не желаю. Мультик мадагаскар 2 посматреть в онлайн ggp Саундтреки из аниме гильгамеш fry Смотреть мультфильм бесплатно снегурочка fal , З Однако все тянется дольше, чем мы рассчитывали. Ему открыла Ороа, неуемная, стройная, с непокорным блеском в глазах. Юрта готовится ко сну. Хватит ли у тебя сил немедленно отправиться в путь и указать дорогу моим воинам?

Страусы не спеша шли своей дорогой. Думаю, что твой Обу жив, сказала она Руламану. Ну, а что я должен делать, если рано или поздно окажусь лицом к лицу с этим человеком? Неужели это были степные пираты? Галлер полуинстинктивным движением приложил ружье к плечу и выстрелил в передового бизона. Голова у него была широкая и несколько приплюснутая, уши короткие и прямые. qcu5 смотреть онлайн мультик конфу панда fhw5 новый мультфильм десантник степочкин 2 ojx3 лучшие и официальные сайты об аниме наруто онлайн полный рапунцель смотреть мультфильм Орочимару наруто фанфики qxk ltt1 игрушки трансформеры из мультика чебурашка с гоблином мультики геной с , Я бросился к нему, ощупываю ноги, руки. Тогда приходилось останавливаться в бухтах или укрываться в пещерах, пока не прояснилось небо.

[Guest Norbert]

Another incident at a high school. This time in Colorado. There have been a few nutters in Colorado doing this sort of thing. Wasn't that cinema shooting a few years ago there?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25375064

Anyway, you all know my views so I'll just let you get on with it.

[Steve Moss]

Here's an interesting study that will likely cause seizures among some:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294#tabModule

Here's the abstract:

The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).

[Steve Moss]

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/php/galleries/image.php/856/61/61.jpg

[ABBEY]

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/cobb-theaters-grove-16-shooting-reported-in-wesley-chapel

more shootings

[Steve Moss]

There are shootings everyday. And your point would be?

[jim mk2]

US citzens exercising their right to kill each other ? Please carry on - the fewer there are of you the safer the world will be.

[ABBEY]

There are shootings everyday. And your point would be?

If you didn't have penis extensions then your towns would be safer.

[K-Hod]

A row in a cinema over mobile phone usage. Why does the person have a gun on him, he's going to the cinema FFS!!

[ABBEY]

3D USA

[SouthAussieRover]

There are shootings everyday. And your point would be?

When is enough going to be enough?

When there's no one left to shoot??

[Steve Moss]

I'm wondering when the UK will ban women or knives, or both: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10574471/Female-serial-killer-cast-a-spell-over-victims-before-10-day-spree-of-violence.html

US citzens exercising their right to kill each other ? Please carry on - the fewer there are of you the safer the world will be.

You may actually experience quite a bit less safety if the USA were to vanish off the face of the earth.

If you didn't have penis extensions then your towns would be safer.

You seem fixated on extending penises, at least you mention them often enough. I'm not sure why the subject interests you, but don't worry. I won't judge.

[ABBEY]

Because anyone carrying a gun isn't a man .

[ABBEY]

http://news.sky.com/story/1196154/supermarket-shooting-leaves-three-dead & another

[jim mk2]

Yippee. Another 3 gone. No more US, no more Hollywood. The world got that bit better.

[Amo]

Yippee. Another 3 gone. No more US, no more Hollywood. The world got that bit better.

And this is an acceptable thing to say on here now?

[Mike E]

And this is an acceptable thing to say on here now?

On top of some other horrid things he's come out with in the past. And his inability to answer a question without questioning the character of the person asking.

Odd fellow.