[Archived] Fan Groups

[CapeTownRover]

Okay have your say, are you for or against the idea of there being fan groups. I thought the Berg sacked thread just went sideways with all the talk about BRAG.

I had my say about BRAG, while I'm not Pro or anti them, I do believe that its causing more problems.

We are all fans, but we cannot have this type of division amongst our own fans, when our club Is already spiralling out of control.

[Ewoodbhappy]

Looks like the Judan Ali story thing is going to happen. Just featured the independent on Sky paper review.

All fans should come together for the biggest protest ever.

This is truly the biggest farce in football history - our club being killed by an egotistical Asian Hitler lookalike.

[pk1875]

As a committee member of the Action Group, I'am of course supportive of groups but also acknowledge that many don't want to be part of a group. The way I see this is that we are all Rovers fans, and should respect each others rights to be part of any group or not. If you do not like the groups ignore them, pass no comment and leave people to do their own thing. There simply should not be such divide amongst fans of a football club.

[CapeTownRover]

I think PK, where this has gone wrong, and as a member perhaps you could shed some light on this. There were people who didn't or don't want BRAG representing them, however BRAG has thus imo marginalised the rest of the fans, who want to hear what is happening, but who don't want to become a member. Now, I for one would like to know what is hapening between the dialogue of BRAG and Shebby, but being a million miles away, I also don't want to be a member. This is where I'm not a fan of, there being registered members within these groups.

[DE.]

I was very supportive of BRFCAG during the initial protests to remove Venky's/Kean.

Latest developments are concerning though. The "walk-in centre", the sudden, close relationship with the club and especially Shebby Singh have left me and quite a few others I imagine feeling very cold towards BRFCAG.

In their defence though, they clearly state they only exist for their members now. They are not representative of the supporter base as a whole and thus cannot be relied upon as a voice for the fans or any such nonsense. They are their own group with an agenda that suits their members - and that's their decision to make. It's foolish to rely on BRFCAG to do things (protest against the owners/Shebby, for instance) that would compromise their current direction. Perfectly fine to disagree with that direction, mind.

The whole fan group thing has turned into one big mess IMO. Various people jockeying for power as the walls crumble around Ewood, some in the hope they can gain some power when the rebuilding begins, others to enhance their reputations now, others just because they genuinely think they're doing the right thing.

Regardless, I'm pretty close to giving up. I don't see a way out of this mess and think the end is near for BRFC. The club we knew is already dead, it's just a case of how long the corpse is going to twitch for.

[ABBEY]

I ranted venkys out from the start . Still do . It needs every last venky ousting and if admin comes so be it and start afresh .

[Athlete]

I ranted venkys out from the start . Still do . It needs every last venky ousting and if admin comes so be it and start afresh .

Abbey admin looks like our best hope

[pk1875]

I think PK, where this has gone wrong, and as a member perhaps you could shed some light on this. There were people who didn't or don't want BRAG representing them, however BRAG has thus imo marginalised the rest of the fans, who want to hear what is happening, but who don't want to become a member. Now, I for one would like to know what is hapening between the dialogue of BRAG and Shebby, but being a million miles away, I also don't want to be a member. This is where I'm not a fan of, there being registered members within these groups.

Thanks for your reply I will try and answer you.

We have no intention of representing all fans just our membership base, Fans Spokesman is a term often added by the media, and it is easy to pick up on the odd badly word quote and jump on the you don't represent me thing. I can assure you we are not promoting ourselves as a voice of all fans.

If you wish to know what is going on with dialogue between the group and the club, have a look at our website the minutes of all meetings are available to read along with any announcements or community events.

With regards to registered members we are an affiliated supports group, and there is several member benefits that have been put together (these are again easily accessed on our website) so a card carrying registered membership is required.

I hope this answers your question Issy, again the group isn't for everyone and that is fine.

Please guys lets not jump all over this post looking for faults as it is a genuine answer to a genuine question.

[CapeTownRover]

Thanks PK. I'm just surprised that it has come to this though. When people meet at the pub, irrespective if you are a member of BRAG or just a fan, there is still a good relationship amongst each other. At some point BRAG will have to change their membership policy though, because what happens went Venkys leave along with Shebby? Imo they(BRAG) shouldn't be building bridges with the rest of the fans, because it could just be that things become rosy again. We are all fans, let's not let this power struggle be the actual reason the club disappear into obscurity.

[pk1875]

We are all Rovers Fans together Issy and if a new billionaire owner came over the horizon and bought the club then we would all be happy, at this moment in time Venkys own the club, so they are the ones who we speak to. Are we as a group happy with where the club is now? No...There should be no power struggle amongst fans each to their own.

[yoda]

We are all Rovers Fans together Issy and if a new billionaire owner came over the horizon and bought the club then we would all be happy, at this moment in time Venkys own the club, so they are the ones who we speak to. Are we as a group happy with where the club is now? No...There should be no power struggle amongst fans each to their own.

If you are actually talking to them, point out the folly of what they are doing to Blackburn Rovers then

[CapeTownRover]

PK answer this though, if Shebby appoints Macdonald and Ali Baba, will your group be happy with this appointment? Considering your stance on Sherwood and Billy(both who at least are involved at a high level), would you have a go at Shebby to forget about making that move? Will you guys object to it, and release a statement? This Is not an attack on BRAG, merely a valid question based on your groups previous moves.

[pk1875]

PK answer this though, if Shebby appoints Macdonald and Ali Baba, will your group be happy with this appointment? Considering your stance on Sherwood and Billy(both who at least are involved at a high level), would you have a go at Shebby to forget about making that move? Will you guys object to it, and release a statement? This Is not an attack on BRAG, merely a valid question based on your groups previous moves.

A few of us where interviewed by the media yesterday and all stated that people who make decisions in the club whether it be Directors or Advisor must be accountable for the decisions they are going to make. We have let it be known that our members wish to see an experienced manager appointed. I hope that they listen to what all fans (not just our group) are now calling for and that is an experienced manager. We are not answerable to the club and never will be. If they get this wrong again then heads should roll.

[thenodrog]

A few of us where interviewed by the media yesterday and all stated that people who make decisions in the club whether it be Directors or Advisor must be accountable for the decisions they are going to make. We have let it be known that our members wish to see an experienced manager appointed. I hope that they listen to what all fans (not just our group) are now calling for and that is an experienced manager. We are not answerable to the club and never will be. If they get this wrong again then heads should roll.

Sorry I don't know if you are a member of a supporters group or not pk. All that stuff disinterests me. However you seem to be forgetting that the club is not answerable to you either pk.

If the brewery sold your local pub to another brewery you would have no influence would you? If they changed landlords they would hardly canvas the opinions of the regulars would they? You might have gone in 4 days a week all your life but so what? All you could do is choose to go in or stay away. Thats life and thats the way it is with a football club. If you don't like whats going on then either stay away or go to watch another club. Be an odd feeling at first but human beings are adaptable. The supporters of Blackburn Olympic had to move on didn't they?

I get the impression that there is more than a touch of 'might is right' about all this supporter group carry on. Lets be honest we are not BRFC we are simply supporters or observers of BRFC. We hold no sway. Any influence is not down to passion or committment of the supporters, it's down to who has the money and what their intentions are.

[pk1875]

I agree with a lot of your post thenodrog, But as supporters we are all part of the club, without supporters there is no club.

[MGAndy]

Ok, I am not a member of BRAG or any other group. I am simply a fan and been going since 79.

When BRAG started it had a clear agenda - to apply pressure to remove Kean.

As the situation continued and things worsened (in particular refusal to remove Kean and zero communication), then removal of Venkys came into it.

That's my simplistic understanding.

I have never attended any meetings or organised protests.

I did protest after games last season, in particular Bolton (low point). These were in response to the performances on the pitch.

Ok , so when Kean has gone, BRAG has acheived it's primary aim and thus lost it's function in many ways.

Shebby has come in to fill the communication void. The pressure group (as I would call it) has got what it asked for.

Re Venkys, if they have no intention to sell then it is difficult to do anything at all.

All we can hope for is to work with them in some capacity to make sure they run the club correctly. Police them if you like.

There is a lot of anger and division on here and I'm sure on other sites and in pubs and living rooms and work places....

BRAG seem (to me) to be trying to evolve, as the situation has changed but maybe making a poor job of communicating it.

It seems clear that many people simply do not know what BRAG stands for now. What are the short term and long term aims of the group ?

The old saying "Actions speak louder than words" appears appropriate.

What ever The BRAG guys say on here is not "heard" by many because they appear to be defending Shebby (even if unintentionally).

The actions appear to outweigh the words. I think this is because people simply do not understand what BRAG is representing now. I don't.

Lots of BRAG members signed up for the removal of Kean... it's a simple black and white thing. It's done.... so what now ?

Most obviously want the Venkys gone (me too), but they won't sell so we have to park that and be smarter.

It's not fair to expect BRAG to ring Shebby every day to tell him that Venky's (Shebby's employers) have to leave now or else....

It just doesn't seem realistic, credible or productive.

I think it is fair to say that Shebby comes from the media and communication, etc is his game. He appears to be likeable (personally).

His presence has certainly neutralised BRAG to a large degree, causing divisions which I am sure was entirely planned.

Media is often used to manipulate situations, even wars.

I mean Kean was terrified to stand up in public (in case someone popped him one), body guard, etc.

Shebby is the opposite and does gain some respect from that. That communication is what fans wanted.

In a nutshell I think Shebby is outwitting the BRAG with the skills he clearly has. He is smarter than them and many fans can see that.

I don't know Glen or Mark or what their backgrounds are.

I think many can see that the battleground has shifted to a new level and question if these guys still have the necessary skills.

i.e. simply being manipulated by Shebby or worse, looking for self gain. All views which can be seen daily on here.

I just think it's simply a case of communicating well, the short and long term aims of the group as they are now.

Then fans can make a decision whether or not to be a part of it.

Then fans can see if the daily actions of the group work towards those aims of not. Judge fairly.

I don't know but It seems to me the group is now simply a pressure group who have a voice (via Shebby) to (try to) police the running of the club.

However, should a stupid decision be made within coming days, then direct Action may be needed again.

Things I would like to be said to Shebby :-

1. It is a misguided decision to be commentating on Radio Lancashire during a match.

Extreme poor judgement.

As the team plummets down the league to oblivion, you should be behaving a professional manner.

It is impossible to remain professional putting yourself in a forum where you are asked about the performance and (your) manager's decisions.

You can only then be honest and divisional or tell lies. You should simply not be in that position.

2. Are YOU (Shebby Singh) involved in team selection in any way ? Black or white, yes or no ?

The question is not "do you pick the team". The question is "are you in any way involved" ?

[Athlete]

Ok, I am not a member of BRAG or any other group. I am simply a fan and been going since 79.

When BRAG started it had a clear agenda - to apply pressure to remove Kean.

As the situation continued and things worsened (in particular refusal to remove Kean and zero communication), then removal of Venkys came into it.

That's my simplistic understanding.

I have never attended any meetings or organised protests.

I did protest after games last season, in particular Bolton (low point). These were in response to the performances on the pitch.

Ok , so when Kean has gone, BRAG has acheived it's primary aim and thus lost it's function in many ways.

Shebby has come in to fill the communication void. The pressure group (as I would call it) has got what it asked for.

Re Venkys, if they have no intention to sell then it is difficult to do anything at all.

All we can hope for is to work with them in some capacity to make sure they run the club correctly. Police them if you like.

There is a lot of anger and division on here and I'm sure on other sites and in pubs and living rooms and work places....

BRAG seem (to me) to be trying to evolve, as the situation has changed but maybe making a poor job of communicating it.

It seems clear that many people simply do not know what BRAG stands for now. What are the short term and long term aims of the group ?

The old saying "Actions speak louder than words" appears appropriate.

What ever The BRAG guys say on here is not "heard" by many because they appear to be defending Shebby (even if unintentionally).

The actions appear to outweigh the words. I think this is because people simply do not understand what BRAG is representing now. I don't.

Lots of BRAG members signed up for the removal of Kean... it's a simple black and white thing. It's done.... so what now ?

Most obviously want the Venkys gone (me too), but they won't sell so we have to park that and be smarter.

It's not fair to expect BRAG to ring Shebby every day to tell him that Venky's (Shebby's employers) have to leave now or else....

It just doesn't seem realistic, credible or productive.

I think it is fair to say that Shebby comes from the media and communication, etc is his game. He appears to be likeable (personally).

His presence has certainly neutralised BRAG to a large degree, causing divisions which I am sure was entirely planned.

Media is often used to manipulate situations, even wars.

I mean Kean was terrified to stand up in public (in case someone popped him one), body guard, etc.

Shebby is the opposite and does gain some respect from that. That communication is what fans wanted.

In a nutshell I think Shebby is outwitting the BRAG with the skills he clearly has. He is smarter than them and many fans can see that.

I don't know Glen or Mark or what their backgrounds are.

I think many can see that the battleground has shifted to a new level and question if these guys still have the necessary skills.

i.e. simply being manipulated by Shebby or worse, looking for self gain. All views which can be seen daily on here.

I just think it's simply a case of communicating well, the short and long term aims of the group as they are now.

Then fans can make a decision whether or not to be a part of it.

Then fans can see if the daily actions of the group work towards those aims of not. Judge fairly.

I don't know but It seems to me the group is now simply a pressure group who have a voice (via Shebby) to (try to) police the running of the club.

However, should a stupid decision be made within coming days, then direct Action may be needed again.

Things I would like to be said to Shebby :-

1. It is a misguided decision to be commentating on Radio Lancashire during a match.

Extreme poor judgement.

As the team plummets down the league to oblivion, you should be behaving a professional manner.

It is impossible to remain professional putting yourself in a forum where you are asked about the performance and (your) manager's decisions.

You can only then be honest and divisional or tell lies. You should simply not be in that position.

2. Are YOU (Shebby Singh) involved in team selection in any way ? Black or white, yes or no ?

The question is not "do you pick the team". The question is "are you in any way involved" ?

Andy great post mate...I am of the opinion that shebby is a very clever and manipulative character who has played certain people ( + I don't just mean the action group - even though a walk in centre Ewood is a bit too cosy ) to get what he wants and where he wants to be...I protested last year but the best potests where the spontaneous ones when Ewood rose as one - but still no one listened it's just got worse !

I think the only protest we have left is to vote with our feet - this is going to really pain me been ST holder for 30 years but it's the only thing left no marching down Bolton Road , no coming out the JW to go and sit in protest in BE , no live on sky mass chanting , no nothing it achieved nothing the Lunes in Pune couldn't give a FCK

[punerover]

I agree. There are only 2 ways out if u dont like the Venky's.

1. Get the money to buy the club from them.

2. Gather support and dont go to any of the home or away matches.

Getting 20% stake, seat on the board, blah blah blah is all kean kean. Actually, come to think of it no 2 is an option to gain attention of the authorities that you want a change in Ownership.

Get the money and buy the club or get someone to buy the club for you. Those are the only options. Clearly that cannot be achieved by getting 10 pounds from 10000 members. That will still only be 100,000 pounds. Surely that will NOT buy you the club. What other options would one have?

[Exiled in Toronto]

The biggest thing I don't understand is the shift from 100% Rovers 0% Venky's, which I would term the French Wartime Resistance, to the current access and influence approach with Venky's, which sounds a lot like the French Vichy government.

This is a radical shift, one so important that, for an organisation that endlessly trumpets itself to be 100% open, democratic and accountable, should have involved a full vote of the entire membership. Did such a vote occur?

It would also help said organisation if Messrs Mullan and Fish spared us all from their half-page rants at whichever poster on here has annoyed them. In fact, since many on here are not members, I don't know why the BRAG "leadership" post on this site anyway since information is hoarded from non-members.

And if BRAG spokespeople have no remit or desire to represent the entire fanbase, they might make a bit more of an effort to correct th misapprehension with the press that they are "fans' representatives", althought that may result in fewer interviews

[iamarover]

The situation is now desperate

The biggest thing I don't understand is the shift from 100% Rovers 0% Venky's, which I would term the French Wartime Resistance, to the current access and influence approach with Venky's, which sounds a lot like the French Vichy government.

The situation at Ewood is now critical. And your analogy is brilliantly apt. This disgraceful man, Glen Mullan, is our Marshall Petain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20851674

'downward spiral...accountable...' this is mealy mouthed collaborationist clap trap. This self appointed egotist, attracted like a magnet to the appallingly self-centred Singh, had a national platform, a national platform, to say what all fans would love to say publicly. That there is a cancer at the heart of our club. And that cancer has its roots in Pune. Until this vile, possibly corrupt but certainly inept, oligarchy leave, then the club is destined for oblivion. The BRAG love-in with the smiling concentration guards who show them the shiny showers (and club chairs) in a cosy 'consultation', whilst outside the good men who ran the club are corporately slaughtered is nothing short of disgraceful.

This is not the time for consultation with these monsters. I feel helpless here in Hong Kong watching the savaging of a beautiful and proud part of my life. It is like seeing a family member develop a degenerative disease administered by a degenerate doctor driven only by his own self satisfaction.

Resist. Do not buy from these football Nazis. Do not pay a ha'penny to their ill-gotten bank accounts. Boycott, demonstrate. Not against the manager, not against a coach, but against the High Command in Pune and their chief SS henchman. But never, ever give in. Never surrender. Never tell them you are not coming back. Their fear is that your boycott is real, and that any new threat to their power (and it will come), wll hold your (our) loyalty., and that the new Resistance general holds that loyalty. England dreams of Arthur when the realm is in peril. We have to trust there is one. There will be. Maybe he is already here. But until he comes, resist with all your verbal and financial might.

And turn your backs on the traitors in BRAG.

[K-Hod]

I agree. There are only 2 ways out if u dont like the Venky's.

1. Get the money to buy the club from them.

2. Gather support and dont go to any of the home or away matches.

Getting 20% stake, seat on the board, blah blah blah is all kean kean. Actually, come to think of it no 2 is an option to gain attention of the authorities that you want a change in Ownership.

Get the money and buy the club or get someone to buy the club for you. Those are the only options. Clearly that cannot be achieved by getting 10 pounds from 10000 members. That will still only be 100,000 pounds. Surely that will NOT buy you the club. What other options would one have?

Even if the cash was raised, they would have to agree to a sale of said 20%.

[Paul]

I agree. There are only 2 ways out if u dont like the Venky's.

1. Get the money to buy the club from them.

2. Gather support and dont go to any of the home or away matches.

Getting 20% stake, seat on the board, blah blah blah is all kean kean. Actually, come to think of it no 2 is an option to gain attention of the authorities that you want a change in Ownership.

Get the money and buy the club or get someone to buy the club for you. Those are the only options. Clearly that cannot be achieved by getting 10 pounds from 10000 members. That will still only be 100,000 pounds. Surely that will NOT buy you the club. What other options would one have?

The £10 membership fee to join the Rovers Trust is NOT a part of raising the capital to buy all or part of the club. The fee is required by Supporters Direct and is used to run the Trust on a day to day basis.

Membership gives every member fan an equal vote in how the club, through the Trust, would be run.

When an opportunity arises to obtain a share in Rovers the Trust will issue a cash call to raise the necessary capital. Shares will be priced at £1000 each.

At present all our energies are focused on building membership not on raising capital. That will come later.

[Happyforeverclapper]

I agree with a lot of your post thenodrog, But as supporters we are all part of the club, without supporters there is no club.

can you please explain why you urged fans to boycott the club last season and watch Chorley afc instead!?

[Happyforeverclapper]

As a committee member of the Action Group, I'am of course supportive of groups but also acknowledge that many don't want to be part of a group. The way I see this is that we are all Rovers fans, and should respect each others rights to be part of any group or not. If you do not like the groups ignore them, pass no comment and leave people to do their own thing. There simply should not be such divide amongst fans of a football club.

you and your other half are 100% responsible for the 'divide' of our fan base!take a look back at what you rammed down the throats(allegations unproven)of decent LOYAL Fans last season! Singh and action group out!

[pk1875]

can you please explain why you urged fans to boycott the club last season and watch Chorley afc instead!?

Indeed I attended a Chorley game last season, it was a great gesture helping out local grass roots football managed and coached by two great ex Rovers, I'm not sure how I encouraged others though? I wasn't even on the committee of the Action Group???

you and your other half are 100% responsible for the 'divide' of our fan base!take a look back at what you rammed down the throats(allegations unproven)of decent LOYAL Fans last season! Singh and action group out!

So now you blame me and my wife for fan divide? and what allegations did me or my good wife ram down anyones throat?

Can I put it to you my friend that you are either my personal stalker or in need of giving your head a wobble.