Blackpool/Oystons

[Vinjay]

We have talked about this enough on twitter Tomphil. If Venkys didn't care about losses then why file that lawsuit against Kentaro, etc? Also what was the benefit of issues like the Berg payoff? The only one who benefited from that was Berg unless people claim he was in on some kind of deal with Anderson/Singh/Shaw? I don't need conspiracy after conspiracy piled on top of everything else.

Anderson, Walkers, trustees (at the behest of the family mainly), Kean, Agnew, etc they were all in on it in my view. I don't believe any of them are in on it now though the Matthewmans still get a cut of blood money via Northchoke. Of course hardly anyone questions that though I note tomphil you certainly have. The FA certainly played their part as well namely their connections with Kentaro and lack of investigation into the whole setup. I don't know why Coyle got the job whether he had connections with someone who worked for Kentaro at one time or whatever. We know he shouldn't have got the job but really if it hadn't been him who else would have been good? I reckon it would have been Joyce, Slade or Redfearn and the latter 2 were certainly no better than Coyle. Of course Joyce ultimately took over at Wigan Athletic and failed. Most fans could have cared less about Coyle's so called connections with SEM and many probably didn't even know about it. It was about who he used to manage and that was why he got treated like he was Satan or something while Magoo was praised to the hilt initially despite having an awful record himself. Coyle came fairly cheap too from what I've been told in terms of salary, etc.

I've got a horrible cold and its making my damn head hurt. So forgive me for the irritant tone.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Vinjay17

[lraC]

Fair points Vinjay, but of course history tells us that Warnock was nailed on for the job and then out of the blue Coyle is appointed. Nick Harris has covered this on Twitter, along with some other good casts about the takeover. With Coyle being connected to the agents one way or another, you have to wonder what exactly is going on?

[Vinjay]

Well others have said that Warnock wanted conditions such as working 2 days a week, etc. I don't know what he's doing at Cardiff City on a day to day basis but I can't imagine Tan allowing him to work part time. Aside from talk of Warnock though was there really a major 2nd option?Joyce and Slade were interviewed I'm sure but who else before Coyle left Houston?

[tomphil]

If you don't sniff foul play in the Coyle appointment Vinjay I think you need the doc with that cold it must've been on you a long time. Even the clubs one and only home based director couldn't tell the truth on that one.

As for the alleged Kentaro lawsuit why hasn't all the details of this come to light ? Did it every actually go through or was it just posturing or even a smokescreen to put the FA off the scent ?

And if it did go ahead just what were they suing for exactly ?   Why didn't similar steps get taken towards Anderson himself and SEM ?

The Berg contract ended up in court and all the details are there, why did that contract get altered AFTER it was agreed then signed off by Shaw without permission of a head V ?

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

Well others have said that Warnock wanted conditions such as working 2 days a week, etc. I don't know what he's doing at Cardiff City on a day to day basis but I can't imagine Tan allowing him to work part time. Aside from talk of Warnock though was there really a major 2nd option?Joyce and Slade were interviewed I'm sure but who else before Coyle left Houston?

There were options and I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Coyle turned out to be every bit as bad, as everyone against the appointment feared.

[perthblue02]

12 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If you don't sniff foul play in the Coyle appointment Vinjay I think you need the doc with that cold it must've been on you a long time. Even the clubs one and only home based director couldn't tell the truth on that one.

As for the alleged Kentaro lawsuit why hasn't all the details of this come to light ? Did it every actually go through or was it just posturing or even a smokescreen to put the FA off the scent ?

And if it did go ahead just what were they suing for exactly ?   Why didn't similar steps get taken towards Anderson himself and SEM ?

The Berg contract ended up in court and all the details are there, why did that contract get altered AFTER it was agreed then signed off by Shaw without permission of a head V ?

According to Nick Harris the F***wits v Kentaro stuff was settled out of court.

"The MoS obtained documents detailing Venky's legal battle with Kentaro, a fight both sides wanted kept secret. I took them to the FA's head of integrity, Newton, spreading them across his desk at Wembley Stadium in 2012.

'Where the hell did you get these?' he said, incredulous. He had no idea a club under the FA's jurisdiction was at war with an FA commercial partner. No action was taken.

Venky's settled out of court with Kentaro after several years."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Be interesting to actually see the documents related to this, Wonder why Venkys wanted to keep it quiet, can understand the FA business partners wanting to, surely if you were Venky's you would be quite happy to prove your innocence in all this, but then again if some details of the initial plan with your takeover partners did not paint you in a positive light

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by perthblue02

[JHRover]

Whichever way you chose to interpret the Coyle appointment it cannot be forgiven or forgotten, no matter how many times they plonk another temporary distraction infront of the cameras to make people think things are different.

As people have said, it amounts to one of two things, or a mixture of the two.

1) The appointment of Coyle was a result of immense incompetence and ineptitude on a scale up there with the worst decisions ever made at this club.

2) The appointment of Coyle was through his agency connections and people pulling the right strings at the right time.

Either way, the club is knackered. If they really had innocent motives and opted for Coyle over Warnock or any one of dozens of alternatives then that suggests they aren't fit to run the club. Even if you completely overlook his Burnley history his performance as a football manager was a succession of disasters at Bolton, Wigan and Houston and nobody would touch him with a bargepole. I could bring myself to accept that if the person who had decision making ability in that process revealed himself, admitted making a massive error, stepped down from decision making and ideally away from the club altogether and apologise for the direct impact it had on us being relegated.

If it comes down to the old agency stuff and Coyle getting catapulted to the front of the queue despite a weary CV due to his agent friends then it shows nothing has changed and probably never will whilst they are here.

The worst thing the club could do is just pretend it never happened and leave the same culprits in place for another opportunity to present itself in a year or two time. Yet over in Ewood towers it seems its all gone into the 'history' tray to be forgotten for all time. I'm afraid I can't just pretend it never happened when it resulted in relegation and we're looking unlikely to bounce back from it.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JHRover

[Vinjay]

Just now, lraC said:

There were options and I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Coyle turned out to be every bit as bad, as everyone against the appointment feared.

Yeah well my view is he was better than Redfearn or Slade. I felt the same way about Magoo that there could have been worse but his record was poor aside from one promotion. Just like Coyle.

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If you don't sniff foul play in the Coyle appointment Vinjay I think you need the doc with that cold it must've been on you a long time. Even the clubs one and only home based director couldn't tell the truth on that one.

As for the alleged Kentaro lawsuit why hasn't all the details of this come to light ? Did it every actually go through or was it just posturing or even a smokescreen to put the FA off the scent ?

And if it did go ahead just what were they suing for exactly ?   Why didn't similar steps get taken towards Anderson himself and SEM ?

The Berg contract ended up in court and all the details are there, why did that contract get altered AFTER it was agreed then signed off by Shaw without permission of a head V ?

I don't know why Coyle denied knowing SEM or whatever. Maybe he just lied about whatever tenuous link he previously had not anything major that still existed. 

There was a lawsuit. It wasn't played out in a very public fashion but it happened. Anderson was one of the people they felt provided bad advice. Rishi Sikka who made that Venkys doc and has spoken to Pasha before even said why would they like JA? Awful lot of effort also for a smokescreen and I just don't buy that theory.

Bad advice as I said.

Because Venkys are plain incompetent.

 

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

According to Nick Harris the F***wits v Kentaro stuff was settled out of court.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Be interesting to actually see the documents related to this

 

Yet their continued connections remain long after so I wonder just what exactly that settlement was ?

You keep throwing us a bone and we won't tell what we know about you or something along those lines.

[Dreams of 1995]

46 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

We have talked about this enough on twitter Tomphil. If Venkys didn't care about losses then why file that lawsuit against Kentaro, etc? Also what was the benefit of issues like the Berg payoff? The only one who benefited from that was Berg unless people claim he was in on some kind of deal with Anderson/Singh/Shaw? I don't need conspiracy after conspiracy piled on top of everything else.

Anderson, Walkers, trustees (at the behest of the family mainly), Kean, Agnew, etc they were all in on it in my view. I don't believe any of them are in on it now though the Matthewmans still get a cut of blood money via Northchoke. Of course hardly anyone questions that though I note tomphil you certainly have. The FA certainly played their part as well namely their connections with Kentaro and lack of investigation into the whole setup. I don't know why Coyle got the job whether he had connections with someone who worked for Kentaro at one time or whatever. We know he shouldn't have got the job but really if it hadn't been him who else would have been good? I reckon it would have been Joyce, Slade or Redfearn and the latter 2 were certainly no better than Coyle. Of course Joyce ultimately took over at Wigan Athletic and failed. Most fans could have cared less about Coyle's so called connections with SEM and many probably didn't even know about it. It was about who he used to manage and that was why he got treated like he was Satan or something while Magoo was praised to the hilt initially despite having an awful record himself. Coyle came fairly cheap too from what I've been told in terms of salary, etc.

I've got a horrible cold and its making my damn head hurt. So forgive me for the irritant tone.

 

Warnock was lined up to take the job. That's a fact.

[lraC]

As we can see from the extract from the Nick Harris article pasted below Anderson has a connection with Crescendo. Whichever way you turn, be it through SEM, Kentaro, Crescendo, or Dave Sheron, Coyle was connected and got the job through that connection, rather then his ability to do the job.

 

Pincher also confided to the FA that Venky's received consultancy services on their takeover from Brunei-based firm Crescendo Sports Limited. He wrote: 'An officer of SEM Limited, Jerome Anderson, has a connection with Crescendo.' 

Anderson's alleged involvement was a potential conflict of interest if acting both for a potential buyer of a club and the seller. He denied any link to Crescendo or any involvement in Kentaro's contract with Venky's.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html#ixzz4xrJWDp5x
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Vinjay]

Even if some connection helped Coyle get the job (and I don't believe that was Anderson) that was the only help he got. He didn't exactly have a ton of support and you can argue that Magoo has had more. It didn't stop Coyle from being fired either. I've heard about Sheron certainly but as with most other things there's conflicting stories. One I've heard being that he left SEM because of Anderson some years beforehand and Coyle only ever met Anderson once at Bolton or someplace for 2 minutes years ago. I still don't know why Coyle said he didn't know SEM and find it hard to believe he didn't know which agency Sheron previously worked with. I think it was a small lie at most but there wasn't really much to read into it to begin with. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Vinjay17

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, Vinjay17 said:

Yeah well my view is he was better than Redfearn or Slade. I felt the same way about Magoo that there could have been worse but his record was poor aside from one promotion. Just like Coyle.

I don't know why Coyle denied knowing SEM or whatever. Maybe he just lied about whatever tenuous link he previously had not anything major that still existed. 

There was a lawsuit. It wasn't played out in a very public fashion but it happened. Anderson was one of the people they felt provided bad advice. Rishi Sikka who made that Venkys doc and has spoken to Pasha before even said why would they like JA? Awful lot of effort also for a smokescreen and I just don't buy that theory.

Bad advice as I said.

Because Venkys are plain incompetent.

 

lol you'd have gone off your rocker if it was Joyce with the UTD connection

They plumped for Coyle because he was another of their agents yes men and he was cheaper. Cheston lied about it and Coyle himself lied in public, absolutely no need for that whatsoever unless your covering up.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Warnock was lined up to take the job. That's a fact.

The story I got told was that when Warnock first met the people from Rovers he wanted to remain based in Devon/Cornwall with Blackwell and Jepson essentially working at Brockhall during the week and Warnock would travel up on a Thursday-Saturday basis to prepare for the game and then go home for a few days. This was what he had done whilst managing Rotherham the previous season and it had worked very well for them. Rovers weren't overly keen on this arrangement so eventually Warnock, who was keen on the job, agreed to relocate up North so he could be at the club every day in a full time capacity.

Following this they even got as far as to discuss budgets and Warnock was very happy with what he was going to be getting financially to build a side and verbally agreed to take the job. His coaching staff were ready and waiting to come in. Then at the 11th hour he was informed that the deal was off as Rovers were going elsewhere.

The rest is history as Cardiff battle it out for a place in the Premier League and their average attendances have gone up massively this season whilst we languish in mid-table League One struggling to maintain a push for the play-offs with one of the biggest wage bill and monthly losses in League One history.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, JHRover said:

The story I got told was that when Warnock first met the people from Rovers he wanted to remain based in Devon/Cornwall with Blackwell and Jepson essentially working at Brockhall during the week and Warnock would travel up on a Thursday-Saturday basis to prepare for the game and then go home for a few days. This was what he had done whilst managing Rotherham the previous season and it had worked very well for them. Rovers weren't overly keen on this arrangement so eventually Warnock, who was keen on the job, agreed to relocate up North so he could be at the club every day in a full time capacity.

Following this they even got as far as to discuss budgets and Warnock was very happy with what he was going to be getting financially to build a side and verbally agreed to take the job. His coaching staff were ready and waiting to come in. Then at the 11th hour he was informed that the deal was off as Rovers were going elsewhere.

The rest is history as Cardiff battle it out for a place in the Premier League and their average attendances have gone up massively this season whilst we languish in mid-table League One struggling to maintain a push for the play-offs with one of the biggest wage bill and monthly losses in League One history.

 

I was told the exact same story. Warnock alluded to it in an interview not so long after by saying "one particular club don't even know what they want" or something along them lines.

Why any club in the championship would turn their nose up at Neil Warnock is beyond me. What infuriates me the most is that nobody has been held accountable: either by publicly apologising or at least answering questions we have to as HOW they came to the decision Coyle was the better choice.

[Vinjay]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

lol you'd have gone off your rocker if it was Joyce with the UTD connection

They plumped for Coyle because he was another of their agents yes men and he was cheaper. Cheston lied about it and Coyle himself lied in public, absolutely no need for that whatsoever unless your covering up.

I've said he was higher on my list than Slade and Redfearn simply because of the curiosity factor. Of course he failed at Wigan so we know that probably would have happened here as well.

Yeah I do believe Coyle coming cheaper was a big part of it. Nixon outright said he offered to do it for less than others and it was a big factor.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Vinjay17

[lraC]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

lol you'd have gone off your rocker if it was Joyce with the UTD connection

They plumped for Coyle because he was another of their agents yes men and he was cheaper. Cheston lied about it and Coyle himself lied in public, absolutely no need for that whatsoever unless your covering up.

Spot on and I know it is only an opinion on a fans forum, but the link below, is very interesting, especially the comment about the commission the agent received, which sounds all too familiar. For fans from two clubs to now be making up the Coyle/ Anderson connection, just doesn't add up if not true.

 

http://the-wanderer.co.uk/boards/viewtopic.php?p=943049

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I was told the exact same story. Warnock alluded to it in an interview not so long after by saying "one particular club don't even know what they want" or something along them lines.

Why any club in the championship would turn their nose up at Neil Warnock is beyond me. What infuriates me the most is that nobody has been held accountable: either by publicly apologising or at least answering questions we have to as HOW they came to the decision Coyle was the better choice.

Yeah that comment by Warnock, was one club, don't know what they are doing and he was definitely referring to Rovers. The story put out by Nick Harris, conforms exactly what you are saying about the Warnock/Coyle fiasco. When it comes to being accountable, Cheston has tried to make out that this has already been dealt with, yet, we as fans, still don't know who exactly appointed Coyle, why and what the consequences of this decision was. So how this has been dealt with is perplexing.

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I was told the exact same story. Warnock alluded to it in an interview not so long after by saying "one particular club don't even know what they want" or something along them lines.

Why any club in the championship would turn their nose up at Neil Warnock is beyond me. What infuriates me the most is that nobody has been held accountable: either by publicly apologising or at least answering questions we have to as HOW they came to the decision Coyle was the better choice.

If it was a genuine honest decision then fine, it happens in football, and when it does the person who got it so horrifically wrong is sacked or sidelined from decision making. That person or persons have relegation on their hands, and so should pay for their massive error of judgment.

However as it stands we are all still speculating as to who exactly was responsible for that decision. The club have done a very good job indeed at consigning that episode to the history books whilst concealing the true nature of that decision making process. Its quite clear that Cheston was involved up to a point, but not as far as making a final decision. Its safe to say whoever did make the decision whether it be Venkys, Pasha or other shadowy individuals that none of them were qualified to be doing so, none of them are directors of the club or are fit to be making such decisions, yet it seems all remain in place to this day.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, lraC said:

Yeah that comment by Warnock, was one club, don't know what they are doing and he was definitely referring to Rovers. The story put out by Nick Harris, conforms exactly what you are saying about the Warnock/Coyle fiasco. When it comes to being accountable, Cheston has tried to make out that this has already been dealt with, yet, we as fans, still don't know who exactly appointed Coyle, why and what the consequences of this decision was. So how this has been dealt with is perplexing.

Cheston was clearly instructed to make no further comment on the subject at the recent fans meeting. It was (rightly or wrongly) included on the agenda, the club approved that agenda so knew it was coming, yet immediately Cheston said he wasn't prepared to comment on it and that it had been dealt with. As far as post mortems go it hasn't been dealt with as the last meeting was in March prior to relegation when the focus was on survival. If I didn't know better I'd say that Cheston's bosses had told him to keep his mouth shut on the Coyle subject and to divulge nothing.

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If it was a genuine honest decision then fine, it happens in football, and when it does the person who got it so horrifically wrong is sacked or sidelined from decision making. That person or persons have relegation on their hands, and so should pay for their massive error of judgment.

However as it stands we are all still speculating as to who exactly was responsible for that decision. The club have done a very good job indeed at consigning that episode to the history books whilst concealing the true nature of that decision making process. Its quite clear that Cheston was involved up to a point, but not as far as making a final decision. Its safe to say whoever did make the decision whether it be Venkys, Pasha or other shadowy individuals that none of them were qualified to be doing so, none of them are directors of the club or are fit to be making such decisions, yet it seems all remain in place to this day.

A little bit neglectful, shall we say, if we are being kind, or down right skulduggery if not. If this was an honest genuine error, the club would have been a lot more open about it, in my opinion. They have chosen to bury the truth and not for the first time, are quite rightly being challenged.

[tomphil]

Bleeding money out with the help of a 3rd party, that old chestnut.

I know a few Bolton diehards and they were convinced Gartside was on the take long before this they absolutely detested the fella and it seems our old friends had fingers in the Bolton pie a long time ago. Just consider the stage managed exit of Coyle from Burnley to Bolton thoroughly greased in the press by yes you've guessed it the fat red top muck raker . So much so that he was receiving all manor of threats from the great unwashed and couldn't go near the Turd for a good while.

But of course good old Owen has never heard of them.

Edited November 8, 2017 by tomphil

[lraC]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Bleeding money out with the help of a 3rd party, that old chestnut.

I know a few Bolton diehards and they where convinced Gartside was on the take long before this they absolutely detested the fella and it seems our old friends had fingers in the Bolton pie a long time ago. Just consider the stage managed exit of Coyle from Burnley to Bolton thoroughly greased in the press by yes you've guessed it the fat red top muck raker from. So much so that he was receiving all manor of threats from the great unwashed and couldn't go near the Turd for a good while.

But of course good old Owen has never heard of them.

I used to live in Bolton and was married to a Bolton girl too, so have loads of friends and former in laws, who are Bolton fans. What you say about Gartside, is correct and there were definitely agents in there, having a nice time too. Coyle never knew any of them though.!!!

[JHRover]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/223057/article/ekathimerini/sports/marinakis-to-face-criminal-charge-in-court-and-give-away-olympiakos

Forest owner facing charge of criminal match fixing in Greece. Well done 'EFL' another one through the doors.

[47er]

3 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Yeah well my view is he was better than Redfearn or Slade. I felt the same way about Magoo that there could have been worse but his record was poor aside from one promotion. Just like Coyle.

I don't know why Coyle denied knowing SEM or whatever. Maybe he just lied about whatever tenuous link he previously had not anything major that still existed. 

There was a lawsuit. It wasn't played out in a very public fashion but it happened. Anderson was one of the people they felt provided bad advice. Rishi Sikka who made that Venkys doc and has spoken to Pasha before even said why would they like JA? Awful lot of effort also for a smokescreen and I just don't buy that theory.

Bad advice as I said.

Because Venkys are plain incompetent.

 

Goes beyond mere incompetence imo.