England

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Kane was. Bellingham might be. Rice, Mm, not quite for me.

Bellingham certainly thinks he is. 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Bellingham certainly thinks he is. 

Can't believe the furore about Tuchel mentioning his Mum found some of Bellingham's on field antics "repulsive".

The remark was taken completely out of context from what he originally said and blown up out of all proportion.

If I were him I wouldn't bother doing any more in depth interviews. Talk about the thanks you get.

Guess no-one will be moaning if Bellingham gets himself sent off during the world cup then.

[M_B]

On 11/06/2025 at 18:03, RevidgeBlue said:

2018 World Cup Semi Final

2022 World Cup Quarter Final

Same (losing) result in both Euro finals.

Not that hard to understand surely.

That's some act to follow. 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, M_B said:

That's some act to follow. 

Why, do you like not winning things?

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Why, do you like not winning things?

I rather have Southgate's tournament record than Sven or Capello or Hodgson. 

[M_B]

45 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Why, do you like not winning things?

I love winning things, although being born in 65 I can't remember any wins with England,the closest I've been is obviously under Southgate.

Thanks to him, the England set up is ready to compete to actually win a trophy, we now almost expect to get to the very latter stages/finals of competitions. It's set up for Tuchel to succeed. 

If your only yardstick is winning things, you must have an extremely dim view of virtually every Rovers manager in history. 

[Upside Down]

55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I rather have Southgate's tournament record than Sven or Capello or Hodgson. 

Why? None of them won anything.

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, M_B said:

If your only yardstick is winning things, you must have an extremely dim view of virtually every Rovers manager in history. 

Completely false comparison to compare England to Rovers. 

Other than a very brief period under Jack Walker we haven't had the choice of the best players in the Country to choose from, in fact for most of the time, not even the best players in the Division.  So you're not looking at anything like a level playing field. 

Despite that in my time we've achieved actual success in 1975, 1979, 1992, 1995, 2002 and 2003.

Southgate has never achieved any success at senior level as a manager. I suppose he did get Middlesbrough relegated which I presume was very memorable for Boro fans.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, M_B said:

I love winning things, although being born in 65 I can't remember any wins with England,the closest I've been is obviously under Southgate.

Thanks to him, the England set up is ready to compete to actually win a trophy, we now almost expect to get to the very latter stages/finals of competitions. It's set up for Tuchel to succeed. 

I started watching England around Graham Taylor time in charge. 

Southgate has been the best England manager in that time frame and apart from Euro 96 under Terry Venables the only manager I actually thought would take us all the way. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Why, do you like not winning things?

Putting the record to one side the football we played under Southgate was dull, uninspiring and boring. 

[roversfan99]

Its really difficult to directly compare managers at international level.

Unlike club football where in a league you playe everyone home and away. Luck plays a bigger role, the draw you get makes a huge difference. Sven lost 3 quarter finals but one was against Brazil and also twice on penalties to Portugal. Throw in the likes of Colombia, Sweden, Senegal, Switzerland, Slovakia and Ukraine and he probably would have gone further.

This England generation peaked in 2022 and 2024 when we had a foundation of players like Walker, Stones, Shaw etc playing at a good level. Now that has gone, this post Southgate era sees us with a much weaker and more unsettled and imbalanced team not equipped anymore to be at the top level.

[M_B]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Completely false comparison to compare England to Rovers. 

Other than a very brief period under Jack Walker we haven't had the choice of the best players in the Country to choose from, in fact for most of the time, not even the best players in the Division.  So you're not looking at anything like a level playing field. 

Despite that in my time we've achieved actual success in 1975, 1979, 1992, 1995, 2002 and 2003.

Southgate has never achieved any success at senior level as a manager. I suppose he did get Middlesbrough relegated which I presume was very memorable for Boro fans.

By the same token, Rovers weren't playing against the best players and managers in the world.

If reaching the quarter and semi of the world Cup and both European finals open to him, making him our 2nd best ever manager, whilst overseeing the whole system from first team down isn't a successful period, we'll have to agree to disagree. 

[M_B]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its really difficult to directly compare managers at international level.

Unlike club football where in a league you playe everyone home and away. Luck plays a bigger role, the draw you get makes a huge difference. Sven lost 3 quarter finals but one was against Brazil and also twice on penalties to Portugal. Throw in the likes of Colombia, Sweden, Senegal, Switzerland, Slovakia and Ukraine and he probably would have gone further.

This England generation peaked in 2022 and 2024 when we had a foundation of players like Walker, Stones, Shaw etc playing at a good level. Now that has gone, this post Southgate era sees us with a much weaker and more unsettled and imbalanced team not equipped anymore to be at the top level.

Luck plays a part in the original draw, after that the path is mapped out and it's results which determine who you play. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its really difficult to directly compare managers at international level.

Unlike club football where in a league you playe everyone home and away. Luck plays a bigger role, the draw you get makes a huge difference. Sven lost 3 quarter finals but one was against Brazil and also twice on penalties to Portugal. Throw in the likes of Colombia, Sweden, Senegal, Switzerland, Slovakia and Ukraine and he probably would have gone further.

This England generation peaked in 2022 and 2024 when we had a foundation of players like Walker, Stones, Shaw etc playing at a good level. Now that has gone, this post Southgate era sees us with a much weaker and more unsettled and imbalanced team not equipped anymore to be at the top level.

Luck play a part in the draw but not in the results of the games. Its very interesting how you want to low balled your own country results in recent major tournaments.  

[K-Hod]

Thought the whole point was winning trophies, not reaching semi finals?

[roversfan99]

Im just saying that factually we have faced some inferior teams in the last few tournaments. Often most of the strongest teams have been on the opposite side of the draw. Its impossible to directly compare tournaments because who you play is not consistent like a league season.

I would happily take a group of Latvia, Iran and Fiji next summer, followed by knockout games against Bahrain, Papau New Guinea, Botswana, Armenia and Vanuata.

[chaddyrovers]

Is Southgate a failure cos he didn't win an international tournament with England? Not at all, he was huge success and brought the national pride and support for England team back to the level we witness in Euro 96. 

People might want to say he was lucky with the draws but he produced our best tournament results since 1966 and that people can't take it away from him and the players their achievements 

[Mattyblue]

The support for the side was huge in the Sven era too, and he achieved bugger all.

Just think of the atmosphere around the country for the Japan WC and Euro 2004 when Rooney burst on the scene.

[M_B]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Im just saying that factually we have faced some inferior teams in the last few tournaments. Often most of the strongest teams have been on the opposite side of the draw. Its impossible to directly compare tournaments because who you play is not consistent like a league season.

I would happily take a group of Latvia, Iran and Fiji next summer, followed by knockout games against Bahrain, Papau New Guinea, Botswana, Armenia and Vanuata.

Going back to the last Euros, the draw actually gave us  the hardest route to the final, we were scheduled to meet favourites France in the semis.

Some saw it as luck that we avoided them, I saw it as France messing up. 

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, M_B said:

Going back to the last Euros, the draw actually gave us  the hardest route to the final, we were scheduled to meet favourites France in the semis.

Some saw it as luck that we avoided them, I saw it as France messing up. 

But that is luck from England's perspective. It can be a French mess up AND English luck.

[M_B]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But that is luck from England's perspective. It can be a French mess up AND English luck.

It isn't luck, it's a result of winning or losing games.

Would it have been bad luck for England if we'd messed up like France did, and we'd ended up on the other side of the draw? 

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, M_B said:

It isn't luck, it's a result of winning or losing games.

Would it have been bad luck for England if we'd messed up like France did, and we'd ended up on the other side of the draw? 

No. But you seem to be missing my point that there is a difference between results that we control and ones that we dont.

France's results in a seperate game helping to give us a favourable draw is luck on our behalf.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, M_B said:

It isn't luck, it's a result of winning or losing games.

Would it have been bad luck for England if we'd messed up like France did, and we'd ended up on the other side of the draw? 

Exactly. He is more obsess with luck of the draw and completely ignore the actual results. 

He is belittling Southgate's and the players achievements and they producing results that meant we got so far in tournaments. 

Wonder how far Tuchel will get

[M_B]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No. But you seem to be missing my point that there is a difference between results that we control and ones that we dont.

France's results in a seperate game helping to give us a favourable draw is luck on our behalf.

I'm not missing the point, I'm arguing the point.

You get your wall chart and the route to the final Is mapped out. The fixtures are then determined by results, nothing whatsoever to do with luck. If you get an "easy " game or a hard one, it's as a result of how each team performed.

Luck would be drawing an "easy" game out of a bag every round. 

[wilsdenrover]

7 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Thought the whole point was winning trophies, not reaching semi finals?

My wife says a semi is never enough.