Beyond the price tag ,taking into consideration he was meant to replace Shearer, I sincerely doubt there was genuine excitement. More hope.

I would flip that and say some get caught in negativity, look at our league position.

This is true. The secret sauce for success is indefinable in many ways. I would love to see Mourinho or Guardiola take over ,say, Sunderland now and see how they get on over 3 seasons.

I suppose we all learn how to do our jobs better as time goes on. As long as you are open to change. He has brought Johnson up,which is certainly positive. Not buying into some ludicrous "theories" on here that he did it to protect his job. I genuinely think he is trying to improve the club. Absolutely no doubt,whatever anyone says,that we are in a much ,much better place than he found us. I would genuinely love for him to be the one that gets the credit for that,not someone after him. At the end of the day though,he will need to push on. The 12 million will always be something he has to answer for. Jesus you remind me of one of Big Mick's seasons in the premier League where it was an unmitigated disaster. You would wonder how that happens, or doesn't in the case of say Wolves and Sheffield United. Mick has never cracked it in the Premier League , which would make you wonder when you read the feedback from practically everyone (except Keane) who played for him.

Ya, I agree with that. I think Mowbray has a lot of great characteristics and competencies for the role, but it would probably benefit him to take a step back from that. That Celtic role really was the big one for him and it's telling it didn't work out. I would need to check,but I would guess it was as bad as anyone's has done there. I can't say I watched it in depth at the time. I don't know about the 6 striker thing, his judgement does indeed get clouded. You would wonder how the WBA fans felt the year they won the championship. He clearly got the mix right that year. In some ways he is probably always chasing that formula. They had some characters and talent though, Morrison, Brunt ,Kiely ,Philips ,along with others. The trick is recreating that with different players. Something he has failed to do. He has had his personal challenges to be fair. I like him and do honestly believe the grass might not be greener if he goes. It's just a toss up then with regards how much time is too much time.

He's a great man to bring a group together. Hopefully some of that siege mentality comes through on Saturday. Transfer wise, ya I think he needs help.

Great stuff ,thank you. A lot of positive stuff and it does seem to me like Waggott and Mowbray are ,by far,the best set up we have had since Venkys took over I don't focus on negatives and I think some of it geared towards Walton is excessive, but when he says that deal fell in our lap, what would we have done if it didn't and why did we need to rely on that happening?

I wouldn't be against that. Could put Johnson in for Bennett either,but 2 workhorses with Downings technical quality might work.

That's a separate point,but I suppose ,as has been done, the case could be made that a few had promotions on their CV. We all know why Berg got it. Appleton a good up and comer, on paper. Bowyer knew the club. Listen I got banned from the official board for ,in Lee Groobys opinion, aggressively making the case for Mick McCarthy after relegation from the PL was confirmed. Ok,fair enough it was about 80% insulting Kean, but I think that was to be expected. It should have been Big Mick the first season we were down. As far as something can hypothetically be guaranteed, I can guarantee we would have gone up.

Why do you think he resigned? Anyway,gone off point to a topic I'm pretty sure nobody wants to go over again The discussion was around @K-Hod saying we are the only club where results don't matter when it comes to firing managers. I think that has been debunked going off every manager to be sacked since Kean.

His position was untenable ,for numerous reasons. Fan vitriol and Shebby the main 2. Kean had a neck like a jockeys bollox, but even he had a pressure point. That story has been well published. He 100% jumped before being pushed Have you not read it?

It has though. We have a better squad with far more players of value.

I really don't want to go over ground covered many ,many times. I am sure others feel the same.

They have sacked every manager since for poor results. Do you always use the example of the outlier to prove your point? Because that's a flawed starting point for your arguement.

That was almost 10 years ago. Every manager since was sacked due to bad results. Do you want to go back any further to try and make a silly point?

How in gods name am I supposed to know? Different times back then

Maths and accountancy ain't my string suit either, so could be the blind leading the blind here!

Ya and I like the look of him

Ya, my understanding is that whilst selling say Dack would help us with budget, it's not something we have to do to stay out of FFP if we keep going the way we have been.

Ya, I would really , really like to see how Big Mick would have spent 12 million. I can say he certainly would not have signed Brereton. Not a McCarthy signing at all.

I don't understand what you mean by saying it has to be scrapped every 3 years? Even allowing for what transfer dealings we need in the summer, our squad IS better than 3 years ago, mush better. Better players, more players of value, younger age profile. European scout now in place, which should help with signing good value players. Mowbray has said promotion is the aim, so I am sure there is some expectation that needs to happen in the next season or two.

I think it's clear we are on top of things. The management is monitoring the 3 year cycles and keeping us out of trouble. Not always easy as a fan, but I feel we are safe enough.

Really, really interesting insight. McCarthy is renowned for his man management (just don't ask Roy Keane). I just wonder if there are parallels here between McCarthy and Mowbray. The grass isn't always greener. For the record I do think McCarthy is the better manager. His record speaks for itself at this level. He will be available again before too long. If Leeds fail to go up again this year, they could do worse.....

Ya, probably, sounds about right. Was a shite appointment, just pointing out that he did get sacked because of results eventually.

If you ignore his time at Burnley, yes.