I agree Kane shouldn't have started but I don't think anyone else coming in would have materially changed the result. Watkins had 30 mins and didnt worry them too much. In the longer term the key thing for us is we have the material now to win things with a lot of good players, but we need to figure out how we play to best use those talents, and really knit together a team and style like Spain did in 2008 (or seemingly now) or Germany in 2014. Im not sure if Southgate is the right manager for that. I suspect not (and that he will quit anyway) but also suspect if we try and hire someone in it will go tits up. England do feel at a bit of a crossroads. Next appointment is key.

Yeah Spain were class. I think we played pretty well, better than I expected.

Everyone has done well except Kane who has struggled with to keep up with the game... I think there is a chance we may hook him now or round 60 mins.

Or more likely we lose tomorrow, Southgate moves on, and in 10 years time we look back and say "actually compared to everyone else Southgate was brilliant"

Yeah hes looked pretty jaded, reckon he will quit and take a break irrespective of the result.

I'd defo have Morata over Kane... part of what makes Spain so good is that he keeps running all game stretching defences, he's been absolutely relentless. Bellingham has been mediocre for England, no way he gets in, Olmo or Pedri defo ahead of him. Saka vs Williams is a very close call, nothing in it. Agree on Walker. Don't think there is much between the rest of the back four and keeper on either side.

If we win it (big if) the best england manager imo. Hes had luck with the draws, but until this tournament did not actually have that many good players established at the top level. That he has the record he has (more successful in knockout than every manager 1967 to 2018 put together, more finals than all england managers put together etc) whilst also not having that great a team till recently would put him as the best imo as long as he can add trophy. But he has to win it against a brilliant Spanish side to achieve that status.

Wow, those ratings are very harsh imo, no way Trippier, Rice and Bellingham get 5s?? We weren't fabulous but definitely deserved the win and had a great first half.

To be honest without even thinking about goals or even having the ball I think we need Watkins just for the pressing. I dont think we can afford to have Kane jogging around at 2 mph.

Crikey, theyve won every game (never been done before) and solidly beat Crotia, Italy, Germany and France on the way. In comparison we've struggled through all games until last night ,and while we deserved to win against the Dutch they were in all honesty not very good compared to Germany, France etc. Spain are a great side. We've always got a chance, but lets not delude ourselves that we have nothing to fear!

Nah, Spain are lightyears ahead of anyone we've played. Way better than anyone in this tournament. Probably overall one of the best teams in tournament history to be brutally honest. Should beat us easily. If we win it (and in football you always have a chance) it.will be the one of the greatest England result of all time imo. I will be watching hoping!

It would take some balls but there is an argument to drop Kane, start Watkins and bring Kane on later in the game....

England totally in control, Dutch apart from a wonderful goal have been woeful. If it stays the same way second half then England should win it. I imagine Dutch will change something though, cant continue to be that bad.

Id say our defence is worse but we have much better options going forward. Also in Rice we have a top enforcer in midfield which we haven't had since Batty and Ince retired.

To be fair everyone has the capacity to qualify for the tournament irrespective of the how large the final tournament was. In effect while the end tournament was much smaller everyone still played a full group round to get there... so actually to say that you can't compare 2024 to 1988 I am not really sure. For example the qualifying groups in 1988 looked like the below.. and if anything it was maybe "easier" as in the qualifying you got to play home and away so less vulnerable to a freak result rather than the single games in the host country in the group in the tournament.

Not me, Mainoo has looked good and should retain his place. At least one of Kane, Foden and Bellingham need dropping. Its really hard to justify Kane being in at the moment. Hes so static, wins very little in the air, cant hold it up, cant run behind, congests the number 10 area... He must be averaging maybe two shots a game...

I mean Southgate frustrates me but his record is pretty incredible. 3rd Semi Final in 4 tournaments.. If you add all england managers before him we have made 3 semis (66, 90, 96) in 75 years.

We had spells where we looked pretty good, but really the only one out of the forward players who looked dangerous is Saka, and Palmer when he came on. Kane, Bellingham and Foden all disappointing again.

Got to love him taking the ball for every free kick within 40 yards like hes Roberto Carlos but he's only scored one in his last 120+ attempts..!

Sounds from the papers like we will go 343 but the only player change Konsa for Guehi. No Palmer, Gordon, Toney etc. Saka LWB, Trippier RWB. Foden and Bellingham play as two number 10s behind Kane. Its positionally an improvement but seems harsh Palmer doesnt get a look. And while Saka is a fantastic right forward its a long time since he's played LWB. And I would have thought Trents engine and delivery would make him a better fit for RWB than Trippier.

Yeah - fair point... here was the team against Germany in 2021 if anyones interested :

On changing the system to 343 everyone saying Southgate wont do it but isnt that exactly what we did in the last Euros? Played 4 at the back in the Groups then switched to 343 for the knockouts starting with Germany? So Southgate has form on it. And with Switzerland being so accomplished with 343 and how we struggled against Denmarks 343 in the group a couple of weeks ago it seems likely to me.

France have been super dull.... All the neutrals won't be backing England or France.

That Portugal keeper isnt half bad. He'll be getting a mega transfer to Spain or the Prem. Didnt realise he had such a sensational record in penalties.

Got to fancy pens with Oblak...