Try getting the idea through your thick skull that racist chants of any kind at all are not, and never have been, acceptable by anybody with the slightest pretention to be civilised.

After watching the match at Boro on TV I feel that Kuqui's first touch has improved quite a lot since the early season efforts. Looks like the Rovers coaching setup is doing a fine job! Anyone else agree?

1960 F.A. Cup round 6 at Turf Moor. 17 mins off full time Burnley winning 3-0. Final result was 3-3 and we stuffed them in the replay at Ewood in front of 56,000. There may be have been other occasions before or since but that one will remain forever as one of my most cherished memories!

Thanks for that great summary of the match. I agree with almost all you said with the one exception that I think you were a tad hard on Gray in the Van Persie goal build-up. I really do think that there are few if any defenders that would have stopped him in that particular situation. Dont forget that Savage too was in close attendance, but V. Persie's close control enabled him to show the ball to both of them simultaneously and still go past them like they were not there. That is something that we used to see regularly from Finney and Mathews but never since they retired has it been done with that degree of ease and flow.

Bobby Charlton? Dennis Law? Shall I go on?

If ALL the players on the pitch had shown the same passion and commitment as Pearce and sparky always do, we would have been treated to a FANTASTIC GAME OF FOOTBALL!

Now that explains why when I looked out of my bedroom window this morning I thought to myself " what has happened to the North Sea? It does look a funny colour; all dirty and muddy just like the Irish Sea at Blackpool." I didn't realise that they had swopped places.

Me too!!

To say nothing of the numerous chances Rovers had to score that were not taken i.e.by Tugay freekick at Darwen End, Bellamy flagged offside when he was clearly on, Two good chances for Emmo at BBE, Another for MGP etc,etc. And this is from my 50+ mins of the game as shown by Football First; who knows how many more there may have been in the 90min version. If we are going to debate the match on reasonable chances to score, my guess would be in the region of 10 -5 in favour of Rovers. I beg to move.

My thoughts exactly. I would ask all the "contestants" in the last two pages of silly argument to name the Rovers player(s) that in their opinion played badly or even poorly in yesterday's game. I can't think of even one.

Although I was only able to watch the match on Football First I have to agree on all your points made above. Especially: 1) On the ref who I thought was very fair throughout; nobody is perfect! 2) On MGP who definitely got hurt in a bad tackle in the 2nd half (which incidentally the ref saw as a throw-in). In spite of this he managed to do a decent job at left back for the last 20 mins or so, which few seem to have given him credit for. Also I think the attendance was pathetic. If you only knew how much it grieves me to be stuck up in Scotland and not able to afford frequent visits to Ewood.

Again what you say JBN is more or less correct, with one notable exception. You have obviously not realised that there is one major sport in Britain where a wage cap for players exists and does not seem to cause any problems at all. That is Rugby League. As for the rest, as you rightly point out it is up to each individual to choose at which point his craving for the game is insufficient to overcome his feelings of being exploited and taken for a mug by the grossly overpaid and underworked players. Which is precisely the process that began as a landslide in the early 60's and has kept on going at a reduced rate ever since.

I dont dispute what you say JBN, and I fully agree that the situation is grossly unfair. I am simply pointing out the economics of the situation today as compared to pre-1960. Let's take a real-life example: I have been a fanatical football supporter since I was about 9 years old in 1945 when I started watching P.N.E. with my dad. He was also a keen supporter of BRFC and introduced me to Ewood Park in 1946-47 season. I have been a Rovers fan first and foremost ever since. Without going into the exact figures over the years it is enough for purposes of illustration to use percentages. In the immediate post-war years up to around 1950 the price of admission to the terracing at all Football League grounds was approx 1% of the average man's wage; whilst at the same time the players wages were capped at all clubs and amounted to about 2.5 times the average man's wage for the average player. Consequently everybody was happy and football was good with grounds bursting at the seams most weeks. Even the two 3rd divisions were getting quite good gates. Then in the 50's players wages along with wages in general increased fairly rapidly but players wages especially for the "star" players increased more rapidly than general wages and costs of living, and a gap began to open between the various divisions for the players wages and for admission prices at the gate. Gates began to fall (not too rapidly, but noticeably). Now grounds were quite well filled in the 1st & 2nd divisions but severely affected in 3rd div. Some supporters of 3rd division teams were either giving up or switching to "better value" teams in the 1st/2nd div's. To cut a long story short, in !960 Jimmy Hill as the chairman of the P.F.A. led a campaign for the players to be free to negotiate their own wages with the clubs employing them, based on their "perceived value", which on the face of it seems a perfectly fair thing to do, and most people including supporters (but excluding club chairmen) agreed. This situation worked fairly well for a short time, but it soon became apparent that a few players were becoming "stars" and only the "big" clubs could afford them, so the gradual drift apart of big clubs and the rest accelerated. Then players started to get greedy. They all saw themselves as "stars" and were no longer content with 2 or 3 times the average man's wage for doing a job that to them was pleasure, in contrast with the alternative of working in a low paid job for the vast majority of them. Consequently prices at the gate rose steeply and attendances fell for most clubs as the average man either could not afford the increase, or felt he was being taken for a mug. Those, who like myself could not "kick the habit", continued to support our favourite clubs and did so through thick and thin, though not without some complaints and discontent along the way. The rest you know already. The steady decline in gates corresponds with increasing affluence for a few clubs and players, whilst at the same time more and more clubs have found themselves in dire straits fron a financial point of view The final irony from my point of view is that after a lifetime of support for Rovers(always) and various other clubs in England and Scotland (depending on where I was living at the time) I now find myself as a pesioner unable to afford to renew my season ticket at Dunfermine Athletic were I have been since 1980.This is my choice so that I will still be able to afford a few visits to Ewood Park each seson, unless of course things get even worse. Ask youself, now that you have read the above, is THIS fair?

I dont dispute what you say JBN, and I fully agree that the situation is grossly unfair. I am simply pointing out the economics of the situation today as compared to pre-1960. Let's take a real-life example: I have been a fanatical football supporter since I was about 9 years old in 1945 when I started watching P.N.E. with my dad. He was also a keen supporter of BRFC and introduced me to Ewood Park in 1946-47 season. I have been a Rovers fan first and foremost ever since. Without going into the exact figures over the years it is enough for purposes of illustration to use percentages. In the immediate post-war years up to around 1950 the price of admission to the terracing at all Football League grounds was approx 1% of the average man's wage; whilst at the same time the players wages were capped at all clubs and amounted to about 2.5 times the average man's wage for the average player. Consequently everybody was happy and football was good with grounds bursting at the seams most weeks. Even the two 3rd divisions were getting quite good gates. Then in the 50's players wages along with wages in general increased fairly rapidly but players wages especially for the "star" players increased more rapidly than general wages and costs of living, and a gap began to open between the various divisions for the players wages and for admission prices at the gate. Gates began to fall (not too rapidly, but noticeably). Now grounds were quite well filled in the 1st & 2nd divisions but severely affected in 3rd div. Some supporters of 3rd division teams were either giving up or switching to "better value" teams in the 1st/2nd div's. To cut a long story short, in !960 Jimmy Hill as the chairman of the P.F.A. led a campaign for the players to be free to negotiate their own wages with the clubs employing them, based on their "perceived value", which on the face of it seems a perfectly fair thing to do, and most people including supporters (but excluding club chairmen) agreed. This situation worked fairly well for a short time, but it soon became apparent that a few players were becoming "stars" and only the "big" clubs could afford them, so the gradual drift apart of big clubs and the rest accelerated. Then players started to get greedy. They all saw themselves as "stars" and were no longer content with 2 or 3 times the average man's wage for doing a job that to them was pleasure, in contrast with the alternative of working in a low paid job for the vast majority of them. Consequently prices at the gate rose steeply and attendances fell for most clubs as the average man either could not afford the increase, or felt he was being taken for a mug. Those, who like myself could not "kick the habit", continued to support our favourite clubs and did so through thick and thin, though not without some complaints and discontent along the way. The rest you know already. The steady decline in gates corresponds with increasing affluence for a few clubs and players, whilst at the same time more and more clubs have found themselves in dire straits fron a financial point of view The final irony from my point of view is that after a lifetime of support for Rovers(always) and various other clubs in England and Scotland (depending on where I was living at the time) I now find myself as a pesioner unable to afford to renew my season ticket at Dunfermine Athletic were I have been since 1980.This is my choice so that I will still be able to afford a few visits to Ewood Park each seson, unless of course things get even worse. Ask youself, now that you have read the above, is THIS fair?

Football used to be the "People's Game"until about 40+ years ago when along came Jimmy Hill and others who stole the game away from the People and handed it to thePlayers, where it has remained ever since. Consequently football has become more and more un-affordable to an ever increasing number of of former die-hard supporters who have simply stopped going to the grounds and are now lost for ever as paying fans. There are far more than 5 contained within the above so that will suffice.

Please accept my sincere apologies BRFC4EVA. I mistook your earlier post as implying that you saw nothing wrong in the Munich and Hillsborough chants and any other similar ones. I now see your position more clearly and accept that your point of view is certainly in tune with a majority of younger people these days. However , I do still feel saddened (not angered) by this whole situation because, as I have mentioned several times before on this and other threads, I do have the advantage (yes I do believe it to be so) of having actually lived through the earlier times (40's to late 60's inclusive) and can therefore speak from actual experience. As a consequence, I am able to relate to both periods and there is no doubt whatever that the overall quality of life from a caring, and safety in everyday life perspective is much worse now than then. This, to me, is a very regrettable situation.

Once again O.R. I find myself in in general agreement with what you say above. I agree that these days there is a great difficulty in defining what is, and what is not accceptable to the majority. My point is: THAT VERY FACT is a very sad state of affairs, and the reasons why we have arrived at this state are so many and so complex that the discussion of them could fill volumes and of course have no place on this board. I have been trying to point out to any that are still able to understand, the difference between a caring society and a selfish and confrontational society. It is obvious from the many posts on this topic that the majority do at least understand the difference, but very worringly there are a minority of people on this board that actually find enjoyment in trying to stir up confrontation and they consider this to be amusing. I know this situation has existed for many years and as already stated it is not going to change. I also know that it is the very reason why a large number of people who were once ardent football fans have stopped going to live matches and is therfore a major contributory reason to falling attendances along with all the other regularly discussed reasons on this and every other football forum.

Cant you understand that ALL these songs/chants are stupid at best and grossly offensive in some cases. I can easily remember the days when no such chants existed on any football ground in the country; when it was a pleasure to go along in anticipation of a good sporting game, and watch a football match with good football played on the pitch (most of the time) and enjoy the atmosphere and support from BOTH sets of fans all mixed in together (segregation totally unnecessary in those days) and the only kind of abuse was perhaps a good natured enquiry to the ref about his eyesight. Those were also the days when attendances at virtually all football grounds were such that if you did not get there at least an hour before kick-off you would not be able to find a single place on the ground where you could see properly. No fighting ; very little arguing even with the opposition fans, and all walking out after the match discussing the match together. What a shame that all you who started watching football since the mid 60's have never known such pleasures. Oh and I nearly forgot to mention the noise levels which were such that my old aunt complained she knew exactly when the Rovers had scored a goal nearly two miles away in her house.

Earlier in this thread you alluded to being at University where in my day one of the criteria for admission was having an I.Q. of at least 140; obviously the bar has been lowered to a much easier attainable mark these days. Are you seriously arguing that the chants you quoted by the Liverpool and Man.U. fans are not both apallingly ignorant and grossly offensive? Given that the average person would think they are, how can you possibly make them some sort of excuse for what our stupid young morons chanted at Cisse?

This is definitely one of the MUST-WIN matches and whatever else happens we must NOT allow ourselves to get complacent and even begin to think it easy or "in the bag". However I do place my trust in Sparky and his staff to firmly get that message through to the players should it be neccessary to do so. Quite a difficult one to call without appearing to be complacent, so I will confine myself to saying it is well within Rover's capability to win and win well, but it wont be easy, especially after Sullivans little outburst this morning in which I detected a hint that Bruce's job is on the line.

Yes there are still a majority of decent human beings about; I just wish that if more of them had stood up and told the yobs exactly what they thought of them back in the 70's we would NEVER have arrived at the tragic situation we have today where thick ignorant yobs ( still in the minority by far ) can rule the roost because the decent citizens let them away with it. Is it fear? If so why? I have proved countless number of times that if you stand up to them either verbally or physically they always back down and melt away like the cowards they really are.

Yes OK as far as it goes, but people have to think about these things and not just passively accept them with an "Oh well, thats life ; I cant change it" attitude. That is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1930's and how Hitler came to power. When you see or hear something that is totally unacceptable you have to ACT on it there and then as I did in 1971 ( see earlier post) you have to make these yobs see that their behaviour is unacceptable. Even if it costs you in the process, don't hesitate DO IT!

Exactly, except that they have been around for at most 40 years. Late 60's early 70's was when it all started to get unpleasant. It was about 1971 that I got ejected from the ground by Police for physically attacking a group of young hooligans that were causing great consternation amongst most of the supporters on the Riverside by their incessant and loud obscene language, which as most people who were around in those days will know was just not acceptable in public in those days.

My feelings exactly with regard to the football side of things, but I worry much more about the state of peoples minds that can either create these kind of situations in the first place, or that can passively accept it as something that "just happens". All decent people should be screaming at these morons to shut up and behave like human beings. Unfortunately they (the chanters) would not understand what was required of them anyway.

You ask who cares? That tells me everything that I have felt about some of the present generation is unfortunately and sadly true. No sense of morality or understanding of right and wrong, or caring for the feelings of other peopleat all. And the saddest part of all is that, as with the author of the above they obviously do not feel they have done anything wrong or even realise the effect their actions have on others. My advice to those who think this way is take a long hard look at yourself and get your head in order before it is too late.