These sort of comments don't help. The suggstion that our issues cannot be rectified quickly with a plan and joined up decision making. They can. The suggestion that things are ok and don't need changing quickly, whereas the trajectory of the club over the last 6-12 months on and off the pitch sets alarm bells ringing and tells me there needs to be urgent change. Magic wand solutions? Remove Waggott and Mowbray - neither of which have done well enough at their jobs, neither of which if we are being truthful should have been here in the first place, both of which have squandered millions and the last 2 seasons going nowhere. On Waggott's watch income has declined along with attendances and by the sounds of things morale behind the scenes is at an all time low. Replace them with a conventional structure with competent staff. A CEO or Chairman appointed on merit rather than the recommendation of the manager. A CEO or Chairman empowered to recruit and fire managers and coaching staff based on results and performance who can recruit based on suitability for the club and performance rather than who is cheapest/most desperate or has a popular agent representing him. A CEO or Chairman given a budget in good time to plan and prepare and work with the manager on recruitment. A CEO or Chairman judged not just on how many pounds he can save the owners but on growing, nurturing and progressing the club on and off the pitch - increasing attendances, improving the atmosphere and image around the club. A CEO or Chairman who understands supporters, listens to and has the ability to act on concerns rather than lying through his teeth and refusing refunds of hard earned cash. Maybe even responds when people write in with concerns (too much to ask?) There we go - 5 minutes on here and I've performed 'magic'.

Thanks for the research. I'm not going down the attendances road again. It makes me angry how oblivious you are to how self inflicted our issues are. Of course Middlesbrough get more fans than us. Not because of Mowbray's narrative that they are a giant football club but just through competent management and not operating disgracefully like this club does. We've made a profit since 2019 on player trading and if Armstrong is sold it will be substantial. So why do we need to release half the squad and can't even sign free agents? Venky taps are off folks. They've given up on St Mowbray but don't have the interest, balls or cash to fire him.

Just run the club properly would be a start. Employ competent people and let them run the club, treat fans with an ounce of respect, sack a failed manager, that sort of thing.

I remember the heady days when we came down to this division and our crowds were the same as Middlesbrough's. That was when they had our manager. They were also down to the teens when Woodgate was taking them down. It bounced back with a decent managerial appointment. Now we're down to 5,000 season ticket holders. See how this works? Sob stories and excuses yet most of it self inflicted. Why don't we do something about it?

Middlesbrough just signed an Argentine midfielder. When was their FFP firesale? Must have missed it.

I think that day is nearer than you think

No we don't have to kiss goodbye to anyone. We pre-empt the possibility of an embargo by getting the decent players tied down to long term deals (a novel idea I know) so that IF we are put in an embargo we have a good squad to get through it with OR have the option of selling a few to get out of it. This would of course require us to spend the coming months sorting out new deals for our assets. Our failure to do so and complete lack of any indication anything is happening on that front, the fact that none of our senior players have signed new deals (other than options in the clubs favour) since last year all suggest the club is doing nothing or is well off the required pace on this. Our lack of action on contracts is the cat out of the bag in all this - because if the club was struggling to sign new players and was worried about FFP it would be dealing with the contracts to protect its assets, so to ensure that there was a solid core there for the next few years and players who could be sold for decent fees if needed. The complete silence and lack of action on both new signings and new contracts speaks volumes. Especially having already waved off 11 players many of whom were on big money. No point whinging about FFP and then allowing all your players to run their deals down and walk away. As I said before - even if we were limited to £10 a week under an embargo - what would that change given our 'activity' this summer?

I didn't come with that rumour. Someone else said that they were ringing around regulars to try and get 35 on before booking it. I repeated what someone else on here had said. I said there was no information as of yesterday, which there wasn't.

You didn't 'quash' anything I was 'peddling' My original post was submitted yesterday. At the time of writing it there was zero information from Rovers on Millwall tickets. The information was put up this morning. If you want to convince yourself that a whole third of the fanbase won't support the team because of the manager great. Hope you feel good about it when rattling around Ewood and the club is in terminal decline. I prefer to think there are bigger problems here that need sorting rather than just shrug shoulders and blame fans.

1. Yes we could have put them on sale much earlier. Maybe we'd have sold a few more, maybe we wouldn't. Bet we wouldn't have sold less than we have now so what's the problem? Surely a sales window of more than a month is worth a try? 2. We are always among the last to release new kits. Always. Last year, and the year before. Didn't have a pandemic or new supplier to blame then did we? The only 'big picture' here is a history of mismanagement coming home to roost. 3. Away tickets have not always been the week before. The standard timing for prices and sales is no less than 3 weeks before the day of the game. It isn't just the current manager though is it? It is a decade of negligence, lies, lack of communication, having the piss taken, withholding fans money without their agreement etc. You might think it is the job of a true fan to accept being made a fool of by lowlife like Waggott and Venkys but I don't. Anyone who opts out of this nonsense, as I am very close to doing, has my complete understanding and respect.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. I don't think the owners have been putting the maximum in they are allowed to. And even if they have been we are completely hamstrung by a limited income and poor commercial operation brought about by their mismanagement. So this attitude of 'they're doing all they can' I don't accept. No, I didn't say that about Gallagher and Brereton. What I said was that the funds for their signings were authorised by the owners because they saw them as project signings expecting to recoup their money with a sale down the line. Due to Mowbray's mismanagement the chances of recouping that money is remote, so instead they will use the Armstrong windfall to cover it instead. I believe the owners only authorised the fees on Brereton, Armstrong and Gallagher in the first place because they were confident of getting their money back and turning a profit - not because they believed it would catapult us to promotion or because it was the missing piece of the jigsaw. What they get for Armstrong will probably just about cover the fees for those players so they will probably be satisfied. We've (allegedly) already been under an embargo this summer due to failing to get accounts submitted in time. So it can happen irrespective of any player sales. IF we end up in an embargo next summer, and I think that is a big IF and the club are skillfully deflecting blame with this one - then we end up in a state similar to now - we struggle to sign players. You do realise we've signed nobody this summer? So what difference would an embargo make? Nobody comes in, we play the kids. Oh yeah, that's happening anyway. The club and team will not benefit from the Armstrong money. It will not strengthen the squad, at best we will get some youngsters on loan, which we could do even under an embargo.

I didn't say we haven't spent money. Mowbray has had good backing and certainly better than any of his 5 predecessors Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert or Coyle. More important than any cash or wages he has had is the time, freedom and lack of forced sales. Most managers at this level get a couple of transfer windows or so to do their work, or have to sell before they can buy, or have to contend with interfering chairmen or directors of football. He's had none of that and this is his 9th transfer window. Absolutely outrageous that we have this squad after that. I disagree that providing wages for free agents or loans constitutes spending. This is where Venkys' operation of the club and my view on things split apart. Of course there are costs involved in signing free agents or adding loans to the payroll. But this is not the same as coughing up transfer fees to recruit good players. Every other club in the league also sign free agents and loans. It doesn't make us special or big spenders because we do the same. It is a basic part of football recruitment that every club takes part in. Admittedly though the manager has done poorly on this and we have been overly reliant on loans which now leaves the squad a mess. And I think there is a gross exaggeration as to how much loans such as Elliott, THB and Branthwaite cost the club. I reckon people would be surprised by how cheap they were. We've already had rumours that the Trybull deal was massively subsidised by Norwich and it is fair to assume the teenagers will have been heavily sponsored by their parent clubs to get them here and give them game time.

Well it is to do with Covid. Firstly because our losses are much higher than they would have been without Covid - surely you accept that? And secondly because FFP rules were relaxed so that costs and lost revenues directly attributable to the pandemic could be claimed as an exemption - so all this talk about having no fans for 18 months doesn't contribute to calculations. The wage bill has been slashed over the last few months. Selling Armstrong won't change that unless he isn't replaced either in which case we might as well give up. Lots of clubs have high wages to turnover. Preston were at 160% in the last figures yet I don't see them offloading half their squad and ending up in dire straits. I'll be the first to slag Mowbray off but he hasn't spent £20 million in transfer fees. Off the top of my head he's had Brereton £7 million, Gallagher £5 million, Armstrong £2 million and then smaller ones like Kaminski, Davenport and Pickering for a few hundred grand each. So more like £15 million or so net spend. That is good backing and more importantly he hasn't had to sell anyone and has had time in the job to do it as he likes without instability. But since 2019 we've actually spent only a few hundred grand here and there. Lets not make out as though we've been on a spending spree. I'm not really interested in the reasons for selling Rhodes. The more important point is what we did afterwards and what we can learn from that. The fact is the money disappeared and we got relegated. I don't want that to happen again.

No we couldn't. Even if we are at risk from FFP - and I don't believe we are I think it is a convenient cover - but even if we are there is no way we would start the season on -10 points. Only two clubs have had points deductions, those followed lengthy investigations taking months if not years and both were more complex than straight forward overspending. Birmingham because they ignored an embargo and continued to spend and Sheff Wed because they fiddled with their accounts to hide losses. I'm not asking for substantial spending or reinvestment. A few free transfers to fill the gaps created would be good. I don't believe that FFP rules are preventing us from doing that - I believe this is down to the owners stopping spending again.

The point is that the money has already been spent. Venkys invest in transfer fees on the proviso they get it back through sales. So the Brereton and Gallagher cash has already been earmarked. Simple question - would you rather survive in the Championship and lose Armstrong on a free next summer or sell him now, get money that won't benefit the club and get relegated? Selling your best players and not signing anyone whilst releasing 11 players is stupid beyond belief, as is persisting with a poor manager. We're good at making stupid decisions here.

This time next summer Travis will have 1 year left on his contract, and a multitude of other players will be out of contract. So I'm not sure what point you are making. I expect you will be arguing he needs to be sold next summer to get some cash in for him rather than risk him leave on a free in 2023. Unless you are expecting all those players including Lenihan and Nyambe to be offered and sign new deals - I think you are going to be disappointed if so. I would rather be in a League embargo and survive in the Championship than a self-imposed embargo and get relegated. If we were under a League embargo now what difference would it have made to our summer? None. We haven't signed anyone and haven't even been close. The manager says loans are all we can hope for so that isn't going to help us in terms of developing more Armstrongs and following the Brentford model is it?

I think we are ending up at cross purposes here. In isolation I have no objections as such to us selling Armstrong to a PL club, provided we get a suitable fee for him. The issue I have is that we are not a normal club. Other clubs sell their star players, but then have a plan and funds to go out, reinvest, strengthen and go again. We won't do that. We know from experience what happens. January 2016 we sell Rhodes. Very similar comments on here then about it being something we needed to do, was the reality of where we were, that it would provide good funds to rebuild the squad. Then over the following 18 months we spent one fee on Derrick Williams, Lambert walked and we got relegated. That is not reinvestment and if that is what we have to look forward to I would rather keep Armstrong because at least we could have some confidence of survival this season. Other clubs sign players, even if only on frees. We haven't done anything all summer, which isn't normal even for those under restrictions or on the cusp of FFP.

You really must have been born yesterday if you believe the state of the club is down to FFP rules. I notice you didn't answer my question about relegation. I hope you aren't one of these who thinks we are too good to go down. The 20 million loss is due to Covid. Isn't it amazing how no other clubs have ended up in sudden dire straits and having to slash costs and sell players to achieve compliance Almost as though it is unique to Rovers. Wonder why that could be.

I'm glad you mentioned them two. I expect their transfer fees are what Armstrong's fee will be covering. Not got a lot to show for this 4 year journey have we?

Yet you still think allowing our top goalscorer to leave is sensible and that our difficulties are because of FFP rules?

And if it results in relegation will you still think the same? Other clubs sell players and then are ready to reinvest and go again. That's what we used to do. It doesn't happen under this regime, we just get weaker and weaker and waste what little cash is spent on loans.

Like we did after selling Rhodes, Gestede, Cairney? Oh yeah, we spent nothing, relied on frees and loans and ended up in League One. The money goes into the black hole and to pay the wages of loans.

Embarrassing isn't it. The most excitement we have seen in months and it is all about rumours of which clubs are after our best player and how much they are willing to pay for him. The fact that Rovers won't benefit from the money and that these clubs were below us in the pecking order not too long ago just sums up how far we have fallen. Absolutely nothing in the media about players we are after (probably because we aren't after anyone) yet weekly hysteria about Armstrong going because that's just about all there is left to talk about here.

One hell of a gamble. You're happy to gamble with the club's future, I'm not. I don't think we are in a position to take that sort of risk and just hope it pays off, and certainly not with this manager's track record on young projects. Nothing wrong with using our own academy players in the first team - Nyambe, Trav, Lenihan - 3 big players for us who I would have first names on the team sheet most weeks. Then there's Buckley, JRC and Wharton who also feature regularly. So there's no shortage of players making the grade and being used. Our academy is highly productive and has delivered more than most. Shame about most of these lads running their contracts down because the Club hasn't got any sort of medium to long term aim but that's another story for another day. The policy here however, which you seem happy to go with, is to avoid spending any money, issuing permanent contracts or recruiting externally because why do that when you can chuck an academy lad in which is cheaper and easier, regardless of whether they are actually good enough or not and just hope it works out. By works out we aren't talking about promotion from this league, just existence down the middle. Again no overarching aim or ambition at this club other than to cobble together a squad and float around hoping individuals develop and improve. Others have aims - promotion asap - and recruit to try and achieve it.

If it means we stay in the Championship rather than go into League One, yes.