JHRover

We can discuss it all day and night on here but the big problem is that we will spend more time thinking, worrying and discussing it than the people at Rovers will. Venkys won't know or care. Waggott will only be interested in £s through the till and making those that go pay more. The general staff down there will see their job getting easier on the same pay. Easier to handle 9000 than 14000. No incentive to anyone down there to boost numbers. This is how clubs die. The problems at Blackpool, Bolton, Portsmouth etc. came and went in the space of a few years. Ours are a decade in the making and will continue.

Thats the other side to Mowbray though. Unable to achieve the consistency or ruthlessness required to keep on winning and really push in up the league. How many times have we been in this sort of position? Have a reasonable run of form, get within a win of being in the top 6, then blow it.

I am firmly of the belief that the reason we got these lads from Brighton and Leeds is because those clubs were happy to send them here for nothing, or close to nothing, in return for us giving them regular game time and getting them playing proper football. This can be the only logical explanation for why we waited on them for so long and seemingly pushed the deals through despite the lack of fitness. I find it unbelievable that we waited until deadline day to sign a loan who had a 'pre existing' injury who is not going to be fit for weeks.

Cooper left Swansea because they mucked him around on transfer funds which was going to make his job impossible after two play off appearances. I doubt he would want to get involved with the clowns owning and running Rovers and a budget that sees us wait all summer to borrow injured kids from Brighton reserves. I hope you recognise how ridiculous this is getting. So you refer to Mick McCarthy as 'living in the past' and a 'boring suggestion' - this a bloke currently doing an excellent job at a rival Championship club, has a record of promotion and play off campaigns over many years and has recently managed abroad and at international level. Yet you persist with the Gareth Ainsworth obsession- a bloke who has been at Wycombe Wanderers for nearly 10 years, had one Championship season which ended in relegation. More significantly than that the football Wycombe have been known for over most of those years has been direct, physical and reliant on set pieces, all traits you say we should avoid because it doesn't suit our squad and is boring to watch. Bizarre.

Babu has been around Rovers since day 1. Pasha has been around since 2015 since when Mowbray has been to India and had meetings with Mr Desai. I think it is just a convoluted mess. I don't doubt Balaji has the most 'interest' out of them but I still believe the ultimate purse strings are controlled by the Desai's, and it is the lack of meeting with them in India that sees things grind to a halt here, as it did from 2015-17 when no managers went to India. Kean, Bowyer and Mowbray all knew the way to get things done and survive was to go to the ultimate power and that wasn't Balaji.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I think it is quite obvious that to get anything done it needs the approval of Mr and Mrs Desai. It might be Balaji's toy but they pay for it, or at least the big expenses.

I really don't think it is a difficult one to understand. Mr and Mrs Desai control the pursestrings - the cash that comes in from the businesses in India. They'll pay the wages and running costs but will only go above and beyond that when someone persuades them to do so. Usually that is when the manager gets on his plane to India, sits around for a few days waiting for an audience with them so he can put his proposals forward. We've seen it under Kean, Bowyer and Mowbray - the three managers to recieve time and backing - that they had to do this every summer to get proper cash for players from the owners. They won't do it remotely and they won't come to the UK. Conversely Lambert and Coyle got no real cash to spend because they didn't go and meet them in India. For one reason or another Mowbray hasn't had that opportunity now since 2019. That might be because of Covid restrictions, or it might be because the owners refused to meet with him. They wouldn't meet Bowyer in 2015 for one reason or another either which just so happened to coincide with them selling players, cutting costs and spending nothing. They move in cycles - meet a manager who goes out there, tells them how fantastic they are, promises to do a good job and work very hard and that in a couple of years we should be getting money back on investments or pushing for promotion. When that time comes around and promotion hasn't been anywhere near there is a cutback. This is the way Venkys work. Always has been.

I know he was sold. I asked what you think would have happened if he couldn't be sold, which might have happened. I don't think it made any difference to our summer - if he wasn't sold we would still have been able to sign the players we did - cheap loans - do you agree? If you do then you've confirmed my point - that the sale of Armstrong and business done afterwards had nothing to do with FFP and more to do with an unwillingness to spend either way from within Rovers. To be honest I'm not interested in reports on who we tried and failed to sign. Lets call it Assombalonga syndrome - we have these every transfer window and then all sorts of excuses afterwards about why we couldn't get it done.

For heavens sake. The last two years of his Brighton spell? You mean after he had got them into the PL and they were staying in the PL and getting to an FA Cup semi? I'd take wasting some money if he delivered that. Last season at Forest he was a success. He took over when they were in the bottom three and kept them up. They finished 5 points behind us despite our 'journey' of 4 years under Mowbray and him having had no opportunity of recruitment at Forest and them going through a different manager every season. As I've said - his tactics and style get teams promoted and quickly. So they work. Whatever tactics Mowbray have take teams nowhere. We are six games into the season. I bet if we were around the bottom 3 now you'd be quick to point that out. Yet now desperate to be proved right that Hughton is a 'dinosaur' because they've had a poor start. What do you have to say about McCarthy - another one you were labelling too negative and finished last year - doing alright isn't he? I've no idea in his 'record' with academy players - he didn't get his job at Newcastle, Brighton or Forest on that basis. His job is to get teams promoted. That should be Mowbray's job and focus. The only 'recruitment plan' we should have is getting a side together to get promoted. Great if that can involve the academy but if not then get external players in. Its the sign of a club going nowhere and a manager incapable of delivering promotion that goes on about needing to bring through academy lads all the time. I want promotion. Nothing else.

No such thing as a crystal ball in football. But I'd say there was a pretty solid expectation that one or both of those players, or Dack/Armstrong, would be potential £10 million+ players and would cover that outlay yes.

Sheffield Wednesday were under FFP restrictions last year (we aren't as confirmed by the club) yet they were still able to sack of Garry Monk, Tony Pulis and all their coaching staff and replace them with other proven managers. So I don't accept the excuse that FFP is preventing us from removing Mowbray or attracting anyone decent. You'll also remember then that Paul Lambert (on paper our only decent looking appointment since Allardyce) arrived during the time we were under an embargo. Seemingly convinced that we had a plan to get out of it. Not sure why something similar couldn't happen right now and a good manager be brought in on the basis he could get ready for backing next year. He didn't go to India last year for good reason. The world was locked down and nobody knew what was happening with the football seasons. This summer he could have gone out there or alternative plans could have been made with a conventional summer window. How many times do I have to say this? We lost £20 million last year in no small part due to the pandemic. Costs attributable to the pandemic can be discounted from FFP calculations. So that figure should be substantially lower. The massive savings made in terms of the wage bill and Armstrong cash would also be factored into any discussions with the League on restrictions - if they were suggesting restrictions were coming we could show that we had slashed costs down and brought cash in. I also keep coming back to the Millwalls, Lutons and Barnsleys - smaller clubs who manage to attract decent managers, build squads, finish mid table or push the play offs and all without any FFP trouble. Why can't we do that?

Lets suppose Armstrong had got injured at Bolton and a sale this summer was made impossible as a result. What would we have done then and would our transfer business have been any different? The answer is no. With or without an Armstrong sale it was reliance on cheap young loans. If Armstrong hadn't been sold where do you think we would be right now re. FFP? Do you think we'd have to magic £15 million out of player sales to avoid sanctions or do you think we'd have just been in pretty much exactly the same position as we are right now? If there's any truth to the Maja 'deal' then it was typical Waggott - get now and pay later. I've heard a few things at the club that suggests this is his M.O. Nowt to do with FFP and more to do with having no money but probably hoping to persuade the owners to cough it up in due course or leave someone else to deal with it next year once he's retired.

Lets suppose FFP is the issue here. A few problems I have with this suggestion. 1) Are we suggesting that FFP is preventing us from firing Mowbray? Because if that is the case, what do we do if we are in the relegation zone at Xmas? Just persist with him no matter what to avoid having to cough up to pay him off? No Club in the entire league would do that even those under FFP restrictions. 2) Surely the situation has drastically changed with the Armstrong deal? What I mean is that until that deal was done and dusted there was no guarantee he would be sold. It was always likely to happen but if he had got a serious injury in training or pre-season or no PL clubs had taken a serious interest then we would either have kept him or sold him for a knock down fee. So to be able to sell him for a substantial fee must ha Are we supposed to believe that we were sailing close to the wind, have sold Armstrong for an 8 figure sum, have demolished the weekly wage bill by getting rid of Bennett, Mulgrew, Williams, Evans, Holtby, Downing - and yet despite all that cannot pay off the manager if we don't like him any more or cannot provide any funds for new players without being in FFP trouble? I think that is nonsense. The more logical explanation, albeit one that people seem reluctant to believe, is that Venkys have got bored and fed up of spending but don't have the interest or balls to sack Mowbray, so instead we are back into limbo land like we were in the summer of 2015 when Gary Bowyer was left in the lurch. I think the only way the owners will sanction reasonable spending is if the manager goes off to India and puts a case to the Desai's to back him. If the manager can't or won't do that then he doesn't get anything beyond what the club itself can generate.

Why wouldn't he be the 'right fit' for our club? He would be given control of recruitment and need to assemble a new squad given the disaster Mowbray has overseen so he could quickly get players in that would be the 'right fit'. You don't win two automatic promotions and finish in the play-offs twice in 4 Championship seasons by being 'far too negative tactical wise' (whatever that means). Do you have any reason at all for suggesting Hughton would not use our academy players? The guy knows how to get promoted and quickly. Serious clubs see that and would trust him to do it, with or without academy players. The focus should be on promotion not the academy. Development of academy players is the job of the academy coaches.

If Hughton is 'yesterdays man' then what the hell does that make Mowbray who has been drifting along going nowhere for over a decade. Interesting those referencing his style of play as though what we churn out can be described as better or attractive to watch. Myth number one of Mowbray's career is that his sides play entertaining football. Also interesting that the side that beat Forest today - Cardiff - are now managed by another so-called dinosaur - the same folk calling Hughton boring and finished now were saying the same about McCarthy this time last year. He's lost 5 in 29 since taking over there. Some dinosaur. Anyone who knows anything about the Championship knows that they way for the clubs with less resources to get out of this league is to be organised and solid. McCarthy, Hughton, Dyche, Warnock, Bruce - there's a reason they've been around so long at so many clubs whilst the 'attractive' managers come and go. It isn't rocket science as much as some would want to believe. I'll also predict now that if Mowbray and Hughton last the full season at their clubs that Forest will finish higher than Rovers. Unlike some I'm not convinced by our start to the season and won't be hailing success or labelling failures after a measly 6 games.

The board for 5 minutes injury time went up during the stoppage when the referee was on the floor. So the time shouldn't start until play has resumed which on my clock was 3 minutes 30 seconds into added time. They scored comfortably within the 5 minutes allocated. No complaints from me.

Blackpool and Millwall showing that it is of course entirely achievable to obtain results against the better sides in this league like WBA and Fulham. It seems to be a local attitude that because they are decent that nobody can take anything off them.

Luton are a difficult side to deal with. I wasn't confident of a win in advance of the game because if you look through their away form they don't lose that many. I think their manager is one of the most loathsome individuals in football but he has clearly instilled an attitude in his team that they don't give in. Only a few weeks ago they looked well beaten at West Brom but came back with two late goals to set up a nervy finish. So having got ourselves in the driving seat and supposedly in control at half time it was especially frustrating to watch that second half unfold. I don't think we were ever really in control of the game. Even at 2-0 I wasn't confident of us holding on. I very rarely am under this manager. Others have referenced it - I don't think he has a clue how to manage games out and keep hold of leads. I'm not just talking tactical decisions and substitutions. I'm talking about mentality and gamesmanship. As an example - taking free kicks quickly because this thing supposedly suits our game, yet from my viewing more often it results in the opposition winning possession back quickly and breaking causing us problems. I'd rather see us waste time away on free kicks. When we went to Luton season before last all their ball boys disappeared once they were ahead. Yet we are happy to keep the game moving quickly. There needs to be more of the dark arts but Mowbray thinks he is too good and too nice for that. On the occasions we do hold on I think it is as much down to wastefulness from the opposition and good fortune than it is good management. I've lost count of the number of times we've been hanging on desperately protecting a 1 goal lead at Ewood - even against poor League One sides - never calm, comfortable or organised. It is a recurring theme despite different leagues, opposition and players at our disposal. Comes back to the common denominator - the dugout. So not in the slightest surprised to see the equaliser come. More a case of when rather than if and at best we were going to camp in our penalty area and do the usual routine hoping to eke out the last few minutes. I've seen people say that the dropped points are why we won't be a play-off team. That used to be the case perhaps but I'm more concerned with getting to 50 points and don't think we are going to have an easy time getting there so letting 2 slip at home in the last minute is a major concern. We might be regretting these come May if we are fighting the drop. Boring Mowbray has all his excuses ready to go. Presumably nothing at all to do with his changes and tactics and everything to do with the players not understanding his tactical genius and the referee causing us problems. Having seen the Lenihan one again we got away with one big time there. After the dust has settled and the pain subsided I'll watch their equaliser again because there seems to be an issue there defensively that I would not expect with 3 CBs in the middle and trying to protect a 1 goal lead. In the end this is Mowbray's way. Used to it now and it won't change so I'm past the point of getting annoyed about it.

If you're the manager of a club like Luton, or plenty of other sides in the Championship, and you come up against a club in Rovers losing £15-20 million a year every year then you are right to describe us as having a big budget. All that cash goes somewhere, just a shame most of it is squandered due to mismanagement and we've nothing to show for it.

'Kids in a man's league'. Is this Coventry 2016 or Rovers 2021? Common denominator?

Again, I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it but there are a few things I don't fully agree with here. I do think we agree on several things but: I don't accept that the club has had 'hardly any income' for the last 18 months. In the period affected by Covid - March 2020 to August 2021 - we had a reduced income - as did everyone else in the country. But people need to recall that as a low end attended Championship side the bulk of our income comes from media, commercial and sponsorship, rather than people buying match tickets. As I understand it Sky Sports covered their full payments due under the media deal through that time, grants were also provided. Rovers also had full season ticket money for the 2019-20 season which they refused to refund people on whereas almost every other club offered the option of refunds. Given we sell so few matchday tickets the impact of losing that income ought to have been less than say a Derby, Forest or Norwich able to fill their grounds most weeks. So not ideal but I fail to see how this has affected Rovers more seriously than any other club. It is also something that Rovers have chosen to do nothing about - for example not selling season tickets for 2020-21 until September when rivals were busy selling them through the summer and then callously increasing prices. Again - our wages to turnover ratio is high but that is the case at every club at this level. The real way to resolve this is to increase turnover, not slash wages right back and hope for the best whilst cobbling together a squad built on loans each year. I don't think the club can be run more sustainably under these owners as I don't think they have the capability to do it.

I think it is obvious how the owners benefit from not spending the Armstrong cash. You've explained it yourself - it covers the cash they put in for deals previously, or alternatively can be used to fund the club for the next 12 months saving them the trouble of pumping other cash in. Of course that's their decision and their right to decide but most billionaires desperate to see their club succeed would ensure funds were reinvested to rebuild, strengthen and go again. Conveniently we haven't done. Just like we didn't after the Rhodes dosh came in. Lightning strikes twice it seems. I'm not saying they'll be cracking open the champagne about Armstrong going or spending the cash on themselves, but it certainly helps them in terms of getting back the cash they 'invested' previously or at the very least saves them the trouble of having to fund losses for a while. Again it comes back to ambition and what they are in this for. If their interest is solely to balance the books, keep the club as a going concern then some would say it is sensible to spend next to nothing and use it to plug losses. But if there's any ambition to grow assets, improve, get promoted then cash needs reinvesting and excuses really won't cut it no matter which version of events is believed. I'm not going to credit them for signing so many players each window when one of the main reasons for that is the chaotic and short term approach they have chosen to take. Next summer is another - we will have to sign double figures just to have a squad at our disposal. I will not be hailing the owners if those are all cheapo loans and frees cobbled together with little strategy other than to grab whoever is easiest and cheapest like the policy this summer seems to have been. The Armstrong money, coupled with the Raya cash and other bits and pieces - compensation fees - see us in profit now for the last 4 years on transfer fees. Which I think has always been their intention - they seem happy or comfortable with sustaining a wage bill and annual losses on the debt mountain but when it comes to coughing up cash for investments it seems to only be on the basis they are going to be able to get it back in the not too distant future.

Pleased they have done it, wanted something like this for a while, though I would have preferred a more prominent spot either along the top of the Riverside or between tiers on the Jack Walker. As it is visiting fans will barely be able to see it, especially as people at the back of the BBE stand up during the game.

Just more excuses and backside covering from the resident excuse maker in chief. A recurring theme here of deadline day transfer disappointment followed by a succession of reasons why things didn't get done. To be totally honest I'm not really bothered what the truth of it is. Ultimately it doesn't matter - he could have had Ronaldo and Messi sat in his office but the deals didn't get done and so Rovers are left short, again. I think this is as close as Mowbray has been or will be to lashing out at the owners cohorts. He's quick as usual to absolve himself and his chums of any responsibility - he did his bit (so he says) and got everything done and our 'hard working' (heard that before?) head of recruitment did his job but nobody came in. Familiar story. Boring. Maybe it is because the owners wouldn't sanction funds. Maybe it is because they won't let Mowbray spend. Maybe it is because Mr Invisible is upsetting the Coventry boys happy camp. I'm not really interested any more. I used to be fascinated by the inner wranglings and would hope that this is a sign the manager's days are numbered but I don't believe it and don't even care if they are. It is a dysfunctional mess and I am perplexed that there remain people out there who seem to believe that this sort of behaviour is normal or acceptable for a professional football club. Like selling a 25+ goal a season striker for 8 figures then spending nothing replacing him. Not normal, not acceptable, not justifiable no matter how you want to dress it up. What is the outcome of all these shenanigans? Well the Armstrong money disappears. Who benefits from that? Well not me, not Rovers, not the squad, not even the manager but Venkys do. Which tells me all I need to know. The theory that Venkys are fed up with Mowbray and aren't backing him any more, waiting for his contract to run down. That again is more of a concern than a reassurance. That they are so desperate to avoid coughing up compo to get rid of him and bring in a new manager that they will happily sit back and let the club drift towards the rocks for the next 12 months, wasting another few million going nowhere and risking us being in even worse state next summer just doesn't make any sense.

Just the 13 of that lot out of contract or returning to parent clubs come the end of the season. Disgraceful. Accy Stanley are in better shape.