JHRover

You're probably right there. The only thing that might upset the cosy little routine down at Rovers is the impending catastrophe on ticket sales. Waggott has us down to 2,500 now and if Mowbray's still here I can't see many buying. Other than that it will be 'as you were' especially with no India summit meeting and Pasha still out there. There will be no boat rocking when they've got their man doing their bidding on the ground and under contract until 2022.

A short history of events for those still catching up on things. Episode 1 - Steve Waggott 2004-2010 - employed at Charlton Athletic, first in the Community Trust before ending up CEO of the football club. Our very short-lived Director of Football Paul Senior was also working at Charlton up to around 2004 according to his LinkedIn profile.... 2011 - Waggott joins Coventry City where in March 2015 Tony Mowbray arrives as manager, and in June 2015 Mark Venus becomes 'technical director' - a move that enables Waggott to concentrate on his 'other responsibilities' at Coventry having been dealing with recruitment until then. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/mark-venus-joining-coventry-city-9289138  November 2015 - Waggott decides to leave Coventry City although no reasons given and doesn't have another job lined up. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-chief-executive-steve-10392288 February 2016 - after 3 months out Waggott becomes CEO at Gillingham working alongside Paul Scally. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/former-coventry-city-chief-executive-10851093 January 2017 - after less than a year as CEO at Gillingham Waggott 'steps down' to become 'consultant' focusing on the new stadium development project'.https://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/2017/january/change-of-role/ At some point between January 2017 and October 2017 Waggott leaves his 'consultancy' role at Gillingham and appears in October at Southend United, as 'head of operations' where his position seems to revolve around the 'transition from Roots Hall to Fossets Farm'. https://www.southendunited.co.uk/news/2017/october/reshuffle/ In December 2017 he leaves his consultancy job at Southend to take up the position at Rovers as CEO. https://www.southendunited.co.uk/news/2017/december/steve-waggott-moves-on/)  Aren't we lucky that we've someone in place to oversee this much needed training ground project who has been headhunted by clubs such as Gillingham and Southend to oversee their developments (that still haven't even started to happen). Personally speaking I'm not impressed with what I'm reading.

I have to say also that as upsetting and concerning as this news has been it has stirred a dormant emotion inside me. Over the last 12-18 months I have really questioned my love for it all any more but then this sort of development has hit a nerve and wound me up about things like I haven't been for some considerable time. Not for good reasons or the right reasons, but it at least reminds me that I still care deeply about the club and what it used to be and should be. It has also brought things into focus with the three stooges in place there now. Previously I had them down as genuine and honest albeit limited in their abilities. This has rapidly turned into an intense dislike and a desire to see them gone from this club asap For me everything is so much clearer. There are enemies on the payroll and I want them gone. Suddenly Watford and Coventry at home becomes insignificant especially when I can't even be there. Its also good to see so many of us on here united in our passion, concern and horror at what they have planned. Its refreshing to see so many who care rather than the deluded numpties on Facebook who can't see the wood from the trees.

Strangely Venus wasn't assistant manager at Coventry. This is very odd. He has followed Mowbray to every club Mowbray has been manager at and has acted as his trusted sidekick/assistant manager. At Coventry he didn't join as Mowbray's assistant. He joined the club as Technical Director overseeing recruitment and the 'football structure' and he got a seat on the board as a result. Very interesting as to why Mowbray would chose to do that rather than put him on coaching duties like he has everywhere else. All very strange. It is very clear that he joined Coventry as a director on the recommendation or instruction of Mowbray. Once again it raises questions of how and why Mowbray is appointing friends as directors to a football club where he is already manager. I think there is a lot more to come out in the wash here with this. I'm going to be busy this week

Having visited the academy site many times both as a spectator of the under 18 team and also through work, studied these vague plans in the document I am pretty confident that the site cannot accommodate what is required and supposedly sought by the club. There simply isn't the space, and that is before we factor in access, environmental issues, neighborhood opposition etc. Lets take the indoor pitch - the existing one must be 50ft high and there's no scope for building above it. The 'new' one will have to be the same height and cannot be built on top of. What does this mean? Well the 'plans' in the document show that technically there is space on the existing car park/academy site for the indoor pitch. But what they aren't showing are all the other facilities that we will also need down there outside of the footprint of the indoor pitch. Most of these facilities are essential and not optional - even just as a senior training facility - changing rooms, canteen, kitchen, gym, office space, analysis room, boot room, laundry room, plant room, storage. Where do all these things go outside of the footprint of the indoor pitch and car park? The only place they can go is on the grass down there. A few problems with building out onto the grass. 1) As soon as you start doing this you lose pitch space. At the moment there are 5 pitches down there. Build out and that immediately becomes 4. The senior squad and u23s currently rotate between 4 pitches on the STC. Then we would also have the academy, u18s etc. 2) The academy site down at the bottom is itself in a sensitive area and I'm pretty sure contains strict restrictions on what can be built down there. I believe those pitches prior to Rovers' using them were sports pitches used by the hospital/staff before it shut down. The reason Rovers took over those pitches was because they were restricted for development - they couldn't be developed for housing and the academy building down there now was built on the footprint of the old changing rooms. The reason Jack Walker got those pitches for Rovers to begin with was because they were limited to sports use rather than development so were available 'on the cheap'. So it certainly isn't going to be as easy as building over whatever they like to fit everything they need down there. They are going to be heavily restricted and they know this, hence the references to building on the existing car park and no reference to building over grass areas. Then we come on to the strict requirements of Category A academy status. It isn't a pick and chose optional game. There is a long list which gets longer every year of facilities and items that the club must have access to in order to qualify for Category A status. An indoor pitch is one of them. They also need a pitch with spectator access/use for u23s to play games on. They also need an outdoor artifical pitch which they have up at the STC. So one of the 4 or 5 remaining pitches would have to be ripped up and relaid on that basis. They also need a floodlit pitch, which again is on the STC pitch and would need installing down at the bottom in an area where there is likely to be opposition to it. Accommodation is a requirement - a set number of rooms, including dining areas, and classrooms for the scholars - where are these going to be built? On top of the indoor 50ft high pitch? Lets have a think about staffing levels. Again having Category A status stipulates a certain level and number of coaching staff. There must be 50 players in either the first team squad or u23 squad. Probably another 20 u18s. Then at least another 50-60 staff - management team, medical team, analysis team, office staff, kitchen staff, groundsmen. You must be looking at accommodating in excess of 120 people easily on a daily basis. These people all need access and parking. The road down to the academy is a single track lane running through what has become a housing estate. It just won't work. I'd feel confident that this little scheme was a non-starter on the above basis but unfortunately they will have done their homework and will know all this already. This is where the con comes in because they will push ahead with it despite knowing this, knowing full well that we won't be able to get these facilities built down there but by the time the penny drops or the Category A status is lost the houses will be built.

Performance related pay for Waggo perhaps?

Hypothetically it wouldn't make any difference to me. You don't sell your crown jewels full stop. Once they get away with this one then how long before they fancy selling the other site at Brockhall, or chunks of Ewood Park off? Aldi want a new supermarket in Blackburn so lets sell that car park that 'never gets used' so they can build on there. And on it goes until the club has nothing left other than a run down stadium and a name. Yes we need a new Riverside stand. Many ways that can be achieved without having to sell off Brockhall. We have billionaire owners who never refuse a cheque but even without them we could sell a player or two, grow sponsorship, fundraise over several years.

EVERYTHING that Waggott has done since he first darkened our door in late 2017 has been to try and eek out some extra money from what is already there. I firmly believe that he only got the job because he persuaded the owners that he had the skill set to increase revenues and cut losses by X amount, which is why they agreed to employ him on his considerable wages. He's shown no initiative, bright ideas nor has he delivered any improvement in attendances, atmosphere, facilities. This is his last big hurrah before retirement, great for him and his balance sheets but potentially devastating long term for Blackburn Rovers. Not that he will care, he'll never step foot in Blackburn again after his stint here is over.

I've wondered for a while what Waggott actually does.# £300,000 a year for him to plot to sell off our prized training ground. Good work if you can get it. Pack your bags Steve, you and your mates aren't good enough for this club.

The simple answer to your question is this: Leicester's plans were to genuinely improve the club and its facilities, their owners saw a world class training ground as integral to their future and spared no expense in building 'state of the art' facilities to be proud of Our plans are to make a few million quid on the quiet no doubt with all sorts of snouts in the trough, condense everything down at the bottom site and cobble together something on the cheap in place of the demolished site.

We will fluke a few points from these home games. I expect at least two. Mowbray has that habit of pulling results out when the pressure is building. We need 12 to ensure safety. That's all we've got left now and he needs sacking on that basis alone.

I don't think the Coventry one ever happened. They claimed that they had identified a site for the new training ground but as of 2018 it was still being considered and last season they upgraded the facilities ready for the Championship. Maybe its because they got shut of the stooges and haven't looked back since.

Waggott and Mowbray get excited about buying new drones and computers and refitting the Brockhall changing rooms and have to publicly thank the owners for their support in doing it. Building a brand new training complex to house our academy and senior squad under one roof and it being better than the existing set up?

He was running Charlton's Community Trust and had short unimpressive stints at Gillingham and Southend. His 'top' career job was CEO of crisis club Coventry, who had no stadium and interestingly embarked on a project to sell and build houses on their prized training ground. He's caused more harm than he's done good at this club, from what I can see, including reducing our support base and now selling off prized assets.

Nixon has blocked me so I can't but wouldn't anyway. I'm actually glad that Nixon has taken the line that Venkys are pushing this to rake in some cash - they won't like that (if they see it). We can only hope Waggott goes as soon as possible and that a proper appointment is made next time. I have to say that Waggott's background and experience elsewhere causes concern about him being CEO of Blackburn Rovers. If he can see this project coming to fruition he might postpone his retirement until contracts have exchanged and the money is banked. These people are taking us backwards.

I'm looking forward to seeing the planning permission for this 'state of the art' facility they want to build down at the academy site. Of course this project isn't to make money for people but is to better the club. So I would expect to see no expense spared in designing world class academy and training facilities using the millions generated from the sale of the existing facility. Leicester have just built a new state of the art facility and it cost them £100 million so for us to demolish and start afresh on the academy site and deliver a 'state of the art' facility it won't be cheap. The Gross Development Value of the top site is likely to be around £50 million. That is the total value of the houses when built, based on an average property price of £310,000 (Rightmove) and 170 units being built. Take out the developer's slice, construction costs, demolition costs, fingers in pies, planning costs - how much is left over? I'm also intrigued as to how they plan on fitting this super new facility on a relatively small site with limited access routes and parking and how they plan on building a huge indoor facility that will be many stories high and a blot on the landscape for miles down there. In short it is hard to believe this is anything but a big con. Get that valuable and easy to develop top site sold asap to developers, grubby hands on the proceeds and then send everyone down to the bottom site and chuck something together on the cheap down there. If 12 months down the line we lose Category A status who cares? The perpetrators will likely be long gone by then and they can just blame ever stringent regulations that favour the PL clubs. Some fans will just lap it up and be grateful. Job done, money banked and a sizeable portion of the fans accept, even embrace it, who will never see for themselves what has happened. Retirement here we come!

No news there from Nixon except a few thousand clicks for the Sun website on a Sunday morning which keeps him in work. Don't know where he has plucked £20 million figure from or what that is based upon. Probably just a guess based on sales of other training grounds. I remain convinced this is a Mowbray/Venus/Waggott scheme and the extent of Venkys' involvement is or will be to 'authorise' it. Another reason we need the three stooges gone asap before they cause permanent damage.

Mowbray just doesn't have 'it' in his locker to haul a team to promotion or the play-offs. That's why over 3 years at Boro and 3 years here, despite good backing and support from all angles he's never breached that glass ceiling of 7th/8th. He doesn't have what Warnock, McCarthy, Bruce, Dyche, Hughton have, which is the ability to haul a side up by forging them into a unit or team. We strike me at times as a bunch of decent individuals cobbled together reliant on one or two to do the business for us. His failure to accept full responsibility for our results further undermines his standing. It's one thing witnessing the season collapse in weary and familiar fashion but another that the man in control is coming out with every excuse under the sun, including nonsense about Liverpool and Brentford. He's out of ideas and excuses and is now desperately scratching around for whatever he can find until we stumble across another win to quieten things down for another few weeks.

Expecting the Walker Trust to do anything is optimistic. We'll have a better chance if current residents of Brockhall oppose and fight it whilst bringing up the covenant.

Another woeful afternoon. If that was 'more like it' in Mowbray's eyes I dread to think what 'it' could be. Once again unable to recover from going behind. Sign of a manager with no idea how to turn a game and a side without the know how or fight to do it. Reliant on another penalty and a moment of magic from Armstrong with his strike to go nearest to scoring. From open play we offered next to nothing. In Mowbray world we are 'on a journey' and looking forward to a bright new era with a new training ground. In the real world we are underachieving, sliding down the table whilst flogging off the assets. I expect a narrow win from either Watford or Coventry just to keep the serious heat off his back.

I always thought that the covenant was in place going back well before the sale to Venkys and was there when Jack Walker took the land from the previous owner at Brockhall. Might be wrong on that but I'd be surprised if there weren't restrictions on use imposed on that land when Walker bought it.

First alarm bell that should be going off is the fact that the club have only acted AFTER the news has emerged through fans doing homework online and spotting the planning application. If this is such a brilliant, ambitious and sensible plan why weren't they shouting about it from the rooftops early doors? I'll be honest I feel physically sick about this. Not just at the thought of Jack Walker's legacy being dismembered before our very eyes despite still being lumbered with Venkys but also the possibility that there are other agendas in play here with the Coventry-Venus-Waggott connection. I may be a cynic but expecting me to believe there is no connection is pushing it to the limit. The very thought of vultures picking at our prized estate, the envy of the land at one time, is sickening. Equally distressing is the volume of supporters online happily accepting the club's statement and feeling quite pleased about it. These people are beyond help yet I can't help but get angry at their gullibility to just accept whatever they are told. It's almost as though the last 10 years of misery and decline in every department haven't happened. The trouble is that very few of these people will have ever been to Brockhall or understand what the situation is like down there. The rubbish from the club referencing the facilities being 30 years old - nonsense. The senior training centre is a little over 20 years old. It is a fantastic facility to this day, and will cost a hell of a lot of money to even match never mind improve upon. Most PL clubs would love a facility like that. The new one the dingles built at Gawthorpe isn't as good and that was only opened a few years ago. Thank you Jack Walker. There simply isn't the space on the existing academy site to develop it into a state of the art facility able to house everything we need for a Championship club and Category A academy. It isn't big enough. Jack Walker knew this, which is why he funded construction of a separate site elsewhere. They'll worry about that after though. 99% of fans won't ever go to Brockhall to see for themselves what there is there so they'll just cobble together something on the cheap. They disgust me. I don't even think this is a brain child of Venkys. They are too distant and disinterested to push something like this. Mowbray-Waggott-Venus - this has your fingerprints on it. I want them gone. Now.

Precisely. There isn't the space without going onto the existing grass down there, and when you start doing that you lose pitches. The cynic in me is telling me there's no intention whatsoever of maintaining or improving the current facilites, it's just get everyone down there and make do with what we have. If we lose Category A status through having inadequate facilities then that's another bonus for them - saves a few million a year and can blame ever more stringent requirements.

I can't just find the original quotes - I'm sure he made them soon after his arrival but have looked and can't find them. If we look at the Fans Forum Minutes from July 2018 he mentions it: https://www.rovers.co.uk/contentassets/72f15c4f64fc46be88e3fa7646577133/ff-minutes-9-7-18.pdf Interesting that he was already publicly admitting these plans mere months after his arrival at the club and now here we are. This has been in the pipeline for years with this mon.

The plans don't contradict each other. The first plan is for 170 housing units along with other things on the existing Senior Training site. The second plan is to rebuild the lower academy site to house everything in one place. They make sense as two applications and are consistent with comments Waggott made previously about having one site rather than two. They will come up with all sorts to try and sell this to the fans. They'll roll Mowbray out to do his bit for the cameras as they have at past consultation meetings hoping his ramblings will have people eating out of their hands. Hopefully that old trick will have run out of steam now people are tiring of his drivel. They'll blame coronavirus. They'll try to argue it will be better for the team/club/academy to be all under one roof. They'll claim the new facilities will be better than the existing ones (they won't be better than what Jack built) and will suggest that the cash raised will enable further investment in the club moving forward (it won't) If Venkys can't fund us as we are they should leave.