JHRover

Surprised Barrow can afford to fire him. I keep hearing about how due to closed grounds and the pandemic that paying off a manager isn't possible. In all seriousness I expect that will be the end of his managerial career. Distinctly poor record at both Oldham and Barrow. To be honest I was very surprised they gave him the job in the first place. They're still outside the drop zone so must not have much confidence in him turning it around.

So we can't change manager because Mowbray signed the players and they like him? Whatever happened to the club comes first? These are meant to be professionals who play for whichever manager the club appoints. Seems a very amateurish setup to me. Players here because of their mates and Mowbray has been afforded far too much power and influence over the entire club way beyond what a manager in 2020 should have and that then protects his position further. The 'Mowbray out crew' aren't the same as the 'Big Sam out' crew. I'm a member of the Mowbray out crew whereas I loved Big Sam and would have him here now, 10 years after his departure.

We are sandwiched between Luton Town and Barnsley neither of whom have spent remotely near what Mowbray has here, so lets drop the funding excuse. I'm also pretty sure that we've had a bigger net spend than the likes of Swansea, Reading, Middlesbrough and Cardiff over the last couple of years.

Bang on. The manager is now publicly stating that his aim for the season is to be 'around' the top 6. Not necessarily to be in it, or to win the play-offs, but to be around it. What does that even mean? I can guarantee now that with 5-10 games remaining this season there will be at least 10 clubs either in the play off positions or 'around' them. Anyone within 5-6 points will be able to claim that. It is the whole point behind the play off system to ensure that most teams in the division have something to play for going into the later stages of the season. It isn't an achievement because only 4 of those 10+ will actually get in there and only 1 of them will get promoted. This is the sort of blurring of lines between success and failure that Mowbray is getting good at achieving. Already downgrading success for the season from promotion to now being happy to be around the top 6. He needs asking how many years he thinks it is going to take to get to being a promotion ready side and if he believes we will ever be that because if not he might as well pack his bags now. I've no doubt that if he leads us to 60 odd points and can arm himself with the usual statistics on possession and goals he can then jet off to India in May and prove his progress. He'll get even more plaudits when Klopp gratefully takes Elliott back a year more experienced and he can mention how Ivic, Tindall and Farke all rated us in the newspapers.

All the delight and elation of those narrow wins against Barnsley and Millwall has dispersed with a meagre 1 point from 9 since. As predicted by so many experienced Rovers observers we have been unable to collect points from the more difficult opposition, contriving to lose games we shouldn't and as is so common are able to hide behind narrow defeats, refereeing decisions and deflections to provide a comfort blanket. End result is the same though whichever way you want to dress it up. Mowbray sees a need to remind people that Norwich are top of the league. Of course he is correct. But the same Norwich were well beaten at Luton, drew at home to Coventry and scraped past Forest in their last few games so it was hardly Bayern Munich we were up against. There's always an excuse though. So on we go. Where to who knows. My prediction is that we follow the established routine of win a few, lose a few for the remainder of the season and end up somewhere between 8th and 14th. No doubt there will be a number of stats to suggest progress. A few more points than last year, a position or two higher, more goals scored or more possession. A 'better' style of play. The cycle then continues on again because half the squad are out of contract, and we can bet Armstrong will be off elsewhere. Then it all starts again. Many people seem happy with that which is fair enough if you pay your money and are happy to spend years floating around making the same errors and not changing but I'll never accept it as enough. I can't help but keep remembering Mowbray's grand plan when we got promoted, where he admitted that he had gone to India and put the handbrakes on the owners spending to go to the Premier League and had persuaded them to go with his 'slow build'. It says a lot about the man's confidence in his abilities that he would do such a thing because I can guarantee Neil Warnock wouldn't have done the same at Cardiff or Middlesbrough. I do wonder how much Mowbray really wants this. Is he prepared to do whatever it takes to haul us to the promised land including playing dirty or nasty when needed? I don't believe so. This is why he will win a lot of respect from opposition fans, managers and the likes of Jurgen Klopp. He's great for diplomacy and as a flag carrier for your club, great for keeping a happy camp and working on meaningless stats that impress certain people but a ruthless winner he is not.

Cowley's win record at Huddersfield was 32.5%. He picked up 50 points from 120 available meaning 1.25 points per game Mowbray's win record here in the Championship is 36.29%. He's picked up 1.37 points per game. I'll leave it up to individuals to decide if that difference is worth 4 years of slow build, tens of millions in losses and being deemed a success or failure. In my opinion it is pretty similar really. Mid table/bottom half stuff.

We lost at Bristol City. We shouldn't have done but in typical Rovers/Mowbray fashion we didn't hold on and didn't get the result our efforts should have brought. This isn't unusual. It's already happened at least 3 times this season including Bournemouth away and Watford away. Brentford is another one. Whilst I was jubilant with the late equaliser and in the circumstances happy with a point there remains a frustration that we didn't win it. Blame the referee or blame Lenihan but these things always seem to go against us. Why? Because we aren't ever in control and defensively solid. This is why we couldn't cope against Brentford after going 1-0 up and why Bristol were able to get past us and why Bournemouth took the lead 3 times despite being pegged back. It needs dealing with but we are now into season 3 of it so I can't see it. I'm yet to experience a defeat that doesn't leave me disappointed and downbeat. I'm yet to experience a win where I don't wake up the following day with a spring in my step. The fact we played nice stuff or caused the opposition problems doesn't come into it. Infact it irritates me even more. I can just about tolerate losing if we deserve it and are outdone by the opposition being better but when we are worthy of a result and don't get it then it gnaws at me inside.

How is he nearer the top? His ceiling so far has been 8th in the Championship. We got that high soon after promotion in 2018. Barring a couple of short spells we haven't got any higher. You seem accepting of the typical lackadaisical attitude around the place. We lose a game we shouldn't = oh well it happens and we move on. No. It doesn't just happen. It happens because our discipline slips. Time and time again. It doesn't happen to sides who get promoted.

You don't feel downbeat after 1 point from 6? Do you ever feel downbeat?

I'm in the same camp. I just feel that we are going to waste a glorious opportunity this season and we won't get a better one for some time. The likes of Armstrong and Elliott won't be here long especially if we can't get higher than 8th. Its the same old story every time we get anywhere near threatening in the division. We've already lost too many games for a side that wants promotion. We are too easy to beat. Last night should have at the worst case been a 0-0 but we are the masters at allowing the fine margins to go against us. At 60 minutes last night I was quite pleased with the potential for a 0-0 draw at a tricky place following on from a draw at Brentford. But their goal and our defeat highlights where we are at. No way should we be losing like that in those sort of games and so we are now facing another gap to the top 6 with top of the league coming on Saturday.

We didn't lose because our shooting boots weren't on. The opposition don't score because we miss chances. At 70 minutes it was 0-0 and level pegging was a fair outcome. We'd had some chances, they'd had arguably better ones. Certainly in the second half they had gone nearer. But it was an even affair. What frustrates me is that 0-0 doesn't seem to enter into Mowbray's vocabulary. At 70 minutes, away from home, mid week, with a point in our hands, there never seems to be an attitude of protecting that and coming away with it. A draw would have been a reasonable outcome and quite satisfactory. But we don't seem to ever accept that and strive to protect it. The glass ceiling has been reached again folks, as many predicted. A muddled manager who is no nearer the top since than this time 2 years ago. Never mind, we're top of all the tables that don't matter and get loads of accolades from other clubs and the media so hooray.

So what you are saying is that if we were sat bottom of the table now on 0 points and getting beat 5-0 every week we wouldn't be able to change manager like any other club does? Because sacking Mowbray would cost more than thousands of pounds and would result in a points deduction? Not having that for one minute.

As I say, I don't doubt that finances are affected. It hasn't stopped us spending significantly over the summer. It hasn't stopped half the league sorting out new contracts, paying transfer fees, sacking off managers etc. The football world keeps going. It won't stop us needing to spend to bring in replacements in the summer for Holtby, Nyambe, Rothwell etc. if they walk out the door. The cost of those replacements in the short term is likely to be greater than the expense of increasing their wages on new contracts. FFP won't even apply anyway, but again how can the likes of Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Bristol City, Reading all afford to fire off management teams and employ new ones within FFP restraints and the pandemic yet we can't get moving with negotiations on 3-4 key players worth millions to the club. You've only got to look at the half arsed, slow, lazy approach to ticketing, merchandise, sponsorship and maintenance of our stadium to work out what is going on here Owners who couldn't give a stuff and a manager and CEO under little pressure or expectation to do anything about it.

New contracts spread over 3 or 4 years will barely make a dint in FFP calculations. The point of course is that the financial consequences and damage caused to FFP calculations of giving these players improved terms is chicken feed compared to the costs of losing them for nothing or millions less than their worth and then subsequently having to bring in an alternative (transfer fee, signing on fee, wages, agents fee). Very silly to suggest that not giving out new deals is some sort of cunning plan to ensure FFP compliance. It just means we have to allocate our resources down the line to replacing these players at considerable expense and difficulty The world carries on spinning. To suggest that the entire football world is in hibernation doing nothing until normality resumes is incorrect. Middlesbrough have renewed half their squad on new deals. Accy Stanley have granted new deals! There's really no more to it than we are a shambles of an operation. As I say it wouldn't happen at a club genuinely concerned about FFP or its asset base. But I don't think that has ever been anything but a convenient excuse here.

Why would Mowbray be publicly telling the owners that we need to work to get these players tied down to new deals if those deals were already being worked on? Wouldn't it be more accurate just to say that negotiations are taking place and that the owners will back new deals for their players? Instead the distinct impression from Mowbray's comments is that we haven't even started the process as the owners haven't sanctioned it.

I would have preferred a draw from Stoke v Cardiff and for Watford to not have won but other than that a decent night with points dropped for Swansea, Bournemouth and Stoke. Tomorrow is an opportunity to push on through the famous ceiling by beating a team above us. Not much in it with the teams behind us - the likes of Huddersfield, Cardiff and Luton in particular in decent form and not far behind us.

The 12 month options are not satisfactory alternatives. They are not the same as agreeing contract extensions and invoking them does not solve the situation, only kicks it down the road for another few months and ensures the worst case doesn't happen. Short termism at it's finest. Activate a clause to avoid disaster but actually only push the player nearer to the exit by making him feel even less valued. What club in their right minds would activate a 12 month option on a player of Dack's importance rather than get him secured into a 3-4 year deal? I know if it was me and the club told me that they were activating the extension and keeping me for another 12 months on the same terms as at present rather than offering me a better and longer deal I wouldn't be impressed. Far from it I'd be asking myself just how serious they were about keeping me and my colleagues and building forward. All the while agents and rivals whispering and telling him to look after himself for the season then get a hefty signing on fee in a year's time on a free transfer. I would envisage a Messi style scenario where the player accepts he's staying for another 6-12 months but has one eye on next summer and a likely exit when the club doesn't have the power any more. Look around and there aren't many clubs who do this sort of thing, certainly not to their best players. They anticipate things a couple of years before the iceberg arrives and take action to avoid it. We seem to just be heading straight for the iceberg, keep on going, but take some consolation in the fact we've a life boat to use when we get there. Great we might not drown because of it but the ship still sinks and we've left bobbling around in the ocean with not much left.

Its a fact he is out of contract in the summer. So unless that changes he won't be staying, even if he wants to. It's also fair to assume that if we can't even be bothered to offer him improved terms then he won't fancy hanging around. What are we waiting for exactly?

Anyone else get the impression that we are just coming to the end of another Venky cycle? That this season is make or break insofar as our immediate future is concerned, that the money taps will be turned down again to a trickle after this season if we don't achieve promotion? Remember Bowyer got 2.5 years at it in the Championship, decent backing for players and wasn't forced to sell anyone during that time. Then when it became clear we weren't going to do it in year 3 he was binned off and we cut costs right back for a couple of years. This summer was their 'big push' as they didn't force any sales, allowed some decent loans and frees to come into the club in the hope it would get us up. Review in the summer and see how it has gone but until then no more. I'm only speculating but this would perhaps be the only logical explanation for the complete inertia and lack of interest in securing these lads down to new deals. They've no interest nor intention of dealing with these issues because their plans only go as far as this summer and beyond that everything depends on where we are, where their businesses are and how they feel when it is summit meeting time. They ain't going to commit to long term contracts, salary increases and increased expenditure when they can get a load more off the wage bill come the summer if they feel that way inclined. We all know it is stupidity and senseless but I'm not sure they do, or even care about that. Reading Mowbray's press comments it seems he feels he needs to regularly remind them of the importance of players being under long term contracts yet they don't seem to be taking any interest in it. Where does Waggott fit into all this? A Chief Executive tasked with balancing the books and growing the clubs assets would be on the phone daily pressing for answers and authorisation yet here he sits worrying about how many Platinum Club tickets he can flog for an extra £200 whilst Mowbray is the one banging the drum on contracts. If we lose Nyambe, JRC, Rothwell, Dack or Armstrong for nothing or knock down fees then everything they've talked about over the last 3 years has been shown to be meaningless, because a club run properly and conscious of income and assets would not allow this to happen.

Who was the last senior player to sign up to a long term deal? I recall in the months after promotion there was a spate of renewals including Mulgrew, Bennett, Smallwood and Evans. I think Travis maybe since then but expect he was on a low level deal not befitting of his place in the side and that needed sorting. Anyone else? I can't think of any through the whole of 2019 or 2020. Bizarre really. I wonder if it is complacency or policy not to do it? The pandemic is just an excuse. Hasnt stopped others from doing new deals nor did it stop us committing substantial amounts to deals and loans over the summer.

I agree it is very worrying What concerns me also is that even pre pandemic there had been very little by way of senior players being tied down to long term contracts. To suggest that everything was hunky dory on that front before the pandemic is nonsense. If we had been on the ball with things then assets the calibre of Dack, Armstrong and Nyambe would all have had new terms this last year, months before the pandemic arrived and Dack got injured. Another concern which Mowbray needs challenging on is how he said over the summer window that he had factored in contract extensions to his budget and had those costs in mind when deciding how to approach his transfer targets. If true that suggests that he has approached his entire recruitment strategy with these contract extensions in mind. To then turn around in December, a few weeks before the January window, and blame the pandemic and the hit to income for not renewing those deals I think is a complete cop out. We are back into Venky paradox territory here. We supposedly have incredibly wealthy owners happy to bankroll substantial losses for little in return yet they don't have the gumption, foresight or sense to recognise the cost implications of losing these players for nothing. Its going to come back to bite them, and us, on the arse big style. Like I say, if that's the gamble they want to take, and they want to run the risk of missing out on tens of millions in transfer fees, then so be it. Its them out of pocket, not me. But when their stooge Waggott comes along every few months whinging about no money and FFP problems then I will question what the hell we are playing at allowing contracts of prized assets to run down. I will also question the entire point of the academy and investing in youth policy. Why bother with the initial investment, time, energy and perseverance with young players only to now get to a stage where they are doing the business in the first team and we risk flushing that investment down the toilet and get nothing back for it. To say their first business was selling Phil Jones for big money you'd have expected this lesson to have been learned by now.

Interesting that Middlesbrough and Brentford to name two have successfully concluded multiple contracts with first team players during the pandemic. Excuse after excuse. A month from now it will be more of the same. The pandemic didn't stop him from giving contracts to Pears and Downing. Nor will it stop rivals from coming sniffing for players in January.

The issue with Nyambe is that if we had managed the situation proactively and properly then we would have him tied down to a 2-4 year contract right now. The conversation about selling him then becomes radically different, because we would stand to rake in some decent cash which could arguably be used to reinvest elsewhere. At that point we could discuss the financial and sporting merits of offloading him. As it stands we will be forced to sell him for no reason other than we will be desperate to avoid him leaving on a free transfer come the summer. Footballing decisions go out of the window and whatever small fee we get will be nigh on impossible to get better than him for. It is a failure of strategy because it is likely to cost the club several million pounds in a transfer fee. We have allowed this situation to creep up on us just like we have with JRC, Rothwell and Dack. The owners should be sorting this out yet they seem quite relaxed about the situation. Then again they let Josh King and Ben Marshall do similar so must not be bothered about it. I just hope people remember these things when we get the FFP excuses and sob stories from Waggott about having no money.

Can't happen. Red or nothing. The fact he was already on a yellow shouldn't be any relevance to the appeal whatsoever. Shouldn't being the key word.

Looks like we have appealed Lenihan's red card and will discover today if he is available for tomorrow. Well done to Rovers for doing so. Just hope we've put together some good footage for the appeal rather than a half hearted attempt.