We haven't managed that so far since being promoted so what makes you think we're starting now?

No commitment to getting into the top six next season there , just whenever he can. An ambitious manager would be setting a target of trying to finish in the top 2 anyway. The alleged uncertainty over the budget is really playing into Mowbray's hands. He has his excuses lined up in advance like ducks in a row already.

Sorry, I won't let up on the issue of the manager until he's gone or improves beyond all recognition as I think he's taking the owners and supporters for complete mugs as evidenced by his body language and demeanour last night. There's no hope until he goes imo.

If we were to seriously challenge for promotion I'd say we need a top quality keeper, CB, LB, creative midfielder, pacy wide man and probably a consistent goalscorer. That's at least six quality players. I wouldn't trust TM to bring one in. Such new additions as there are will probably follow the previous formula of either being past it and looking for one last pay day or youngsters who can optimistically be described as "ones for the future" thereby not upsetting or dislodging the core group.

Out of curiosity, I wonder which managers are on the books of HSH? (I realise this is a cue for Mashed Potatoes to get his fishing rod out and chirp up with the name Phil Brown)

Very generous on Amoruso, he was terrible, an oil tanker turned quicker. Souness turned the chance to extend Berg's contract to pay good money to bring that lummox in so it's hard to think there wasn't some shenanigans going on there. On Duff, we originally put in a £17m release clause into his contract presumably thinking that would scare off any interest but Abramovich came along and changed all that. The day the Trustees accepted the bid from Chelsea and didn't even attempt to improve Duff's terms or persuade him to stay was for me the day Jack's dream died. Hardly surprising with hindsight given their subsequent conduct but I think it's more accurate to say they wanted the money rather than needed it. Probably Souness wanted some of it as well to **** away against the wall.

Maybe, maybe not. It would require a bit of diligent research. On the other hand what's the alternative? Doing nothing and dying a slow lingering death buried under a mountain of debt?

The main point to take out of that is that despite the common refrain from the pro Mowbray supporters that the owners would be unlikely to appoint anyone better than him, the reality is that there will be lots of up and comes out there who you wouldn't necessarily have heard of before but who could do a far better job than Mowbray.

Just look at the first post on this thread by Neal following the first game of the season last August. Apart from the bit about (pointless) possession football, it could have been written yesterday.

But but ....... you can't come in and turn things round in half a season.......... you need a "slow build" and long term plan! ?

Yep. I always said that if Mowbray stayed I would probably renew to whatever the Club eventually came up with for next season but not bother going to many games as I'd rather enjoy my free time. That drew some rather odd looks from my better half when I said it most recently yesterday and comments along the lines of why should I pay his wage, so I'm starting to reconsider even that. I just can't see any hope as long as Mowbray remains in charge.

We can only hope that the supposed messing about with the budget is because they're contemplating sacking him..........

It's a good shout jim. I think I'd marginally prefer the Cowley brothers but either way unless Waggott is dispensed with as well I fear the only way Mowbray will be leaving Ewood is in a wooden box.

It's not healthy at all. Which merely underlines my point about Mowbray!

Sorry, I was thinking tonight I probably owe Alan Fettis an apology. I think he is.

There's more chance of me dating dating Taylor Swift than Mowbray ever getting us in with a chance of finishing in the top two with one game to go. And I'm 56.

About right.

Agreed. Us apart it is superb. Barnsley scored at Brentford to stay up now. What must you be thinking if you're a Forest fan? Nicer problems to have I guess.

You couldn't make it up could you?

Brentford just need to score again as things stand to go up. Would be pleased for Raya if it happens after the way he was treated by Mowbray.

Give over. At 3 points progression per season it's be another 4 season before we even made the play offs let alone get promoted.

I thought the pen was very harsh but this is still a dreadfully meek showing second half. I should just turn the picture off and listen to the commentary. Listening to Neil Yardley you'd think we hadn't put a foot wrong and were winning 5-0.

Lee Bowyer is another I'd take ahead of Mowbray. Mind you, there aren't many I wouldn't.

Figures. We only have about 15.

WBA equalised but amazing them and Brentford were both losing before that. Brentford will be absolutely kicking themselves if they lose their last two. Might be as close as they ever get to the Prem.