RevidgeBlue

Yes - exactly this - if he insists on being "transparent" and in the process portraying Trav as the villain of the piece then we need to know exactly how much we're offering him and how much Derby are offering him. For example if we were only offering £8k p.w. and Derby were offering £16k p.w. all blame suddenly shifts away from Trav for wanting to leave doesn't it?

As others have pointed out presumably you wouldn't want him saying in response to a question about how he thought the young keeper and Montgomery did the other night: "I know they're young lads and all that but fucking hell that was an eye opener tonight. Im not sure either will make it after seeing that" or " X was late for training the other day, I fined him a week's wages and tore a right strip off him. He didn't like it I'll tell you!" More extreme examples obviously but do you think Vi's "transparency" will make the players feel more or less inclined to play for him? Or will they think "Im not playing for this fella, he might hang me to dry out in Public next like he did Trav".

Cheers chaddy. Even if Vi wasn't out of order saying Trav wants to leave (I think he was) surely he is by suggesting he's been offered "double" Who was it who cracked the joke "Attention everyone" " Operation Trav is a greedy bastard will start in 2 mins" Many a true word spoken in jest and all that.

Whatever. We needed someone ambitious like JDT or Eustace in charge when Mowbray was here.

No- one has less time for Waggott than me but do you not think this latest ripping up of everything and starting again from scratch by scouring obscure European Leagues is solely RG's "bright" idea?

I'm struggling to see beyond that and the fact that he must be fully on board tbh. It seems clear to me that the owners have now more or less completely lost interest and washed their hands of us. The only real interest for people like Pasha/Gestede and VI now unless they're completely thick is how long they can keep the runaway locomotive from careering off the tracks for and therefore themselves in lucrative employment.

Maybe not. However no-one is telling me he's not part of the reason we're in as much of a mess as we are. We all knew the owners would lose interest eventually, admittedly it took a lot longer than expected and a Court case, but Mowbray plodded along like the Club was his own private pension fund regardless. Ditto Waggott.

This. "Historic failures" my arse. Same owners, same COO. The only thing that you could possibly say is that it was solely because Waggott was refusing to extend any contracts which I could run with to an extent, but, even if that were the case then following his departure they COULD have rectified these "historic failures" instantly by sorting out the contracts of Dolan/Brittain/Travis/Tronstad/Hyam etc. They dont or didn't want to. End of story.

It would be another "exciting opportunity" no doubt.

Before they fell out for whatever reason Travis did have a good first season under JDT.

Not sure how old you are but the Club didn't start when Jack Walker took over. We've had managers prior to that who've had to work in far more restricted financial circumstances than VI.

Ismael reminds me of Iley greatly. The only surprise to me really is that he actually managed to pick up a few wins last season albeit they were in matches which looked like dead rubbers at the time.

No. Why would I? 2 charlatans gone in the form of him and Waggott. 2 more in the shape of Suhail and Gestede to go. Probably 3 with Ismael.

Yes. The only thing you can say slightly in their defence is that this carnage should come as no surprise. Gestede specifically said during the car crash interviews that the fact so many key players were out of contract was "an exciting opportunity" so it was obvious what was coming.

I'll judge him purely on results. We've had plenty of other managers in the past who've had far less to work with.

If Gestede doesn't know what he is doing and/or is hell bent on a project that cannot possibly work, why is it important they're both aligned?

I agree. It's far from the first thing I'd be lining up to criticise VI for, I reckon he may well turn out to be one of our worst ever managers which is far more relevant. However If negotiations have been going on in private behind the scenes then for him to unilaterally announce this without the permission of the Travis camp then it's pretty poor form. Then of course, there's the possibility that Derby won't meet our valuation anyway in which case VI will have besmirched Travis's reputation in the eyes of the supporters for no good reason. It comes across as though he is acting to instruction and trying to ensure Travis leaves.

As regards Vi's comments about Tyjon and Montgomery being viewed as first team squad players wouldn't people say that Leonard looks a better option at this point? (Not that either are satisfactory.) I suppose Leonard hasnt got Arsenal allegedly lined up waiting to pay £1m for him.

I haven't actually seen what Ismael said but I'm guessing he DIDN'T say "Trav wants to leave because we won't pay the going rate for Championship players any more".

What a fucking joke. The guy that held us back for years when the owners actually still retained a bit of an interest being honoured.

Exactly so. The senior players are voting with their feet and thankfully debunking some of the nonsense Elliott puts out on behalf of the Club.

Beck as well don't forget. if Hyam goes that would be an entire back line gone. Beck, Hyam, Batth, Brittain. If Travis and Tronstad go, that would be the midfield gone. Plus Dolan and Weimann,who was a useful squad member. Potentially eight. You can only put it down to deliberate sabotage either because Eustace and Co did a bit too well last season and it was a bit too close for comfort or purely on cost saving grounds or most likely a bit of both.

Yep, offer something no -one with an ounce of common sense would accept then leak stories blaming it all on the player.

Sorry for mentioning the war, but do we have any explanation yet as to how we've ended up with various versions of the minutes and how the sanitised version were apparently initially agreed with the Club?

I was concentrating on more recent events. I forgot having to sell a generational talent at a knockdown fee (Wharton) to keep the lights on.