Our first 11 is competitive but beyond that we are extremely weak in terms of quality, not numbers. If we had to play Edun/Mola at left back or Garrett in central midfield for an extended period of time, do you think we would remain competitive for a top 6 place?

What have you seen from Hirst in regards to attributes that makes you think he could be any good?

I am not convinced that many of our players individually have thrived under Tomasson as opposed to prior to his arrival. Scott Wharton has had a really poor season, Travis has really struggled and his limitations on the ball are clear for all to see, Buckley has spent much of the season in the kids team, Brereton has been no better although he has been effective still of course, Hedges had a good spell that soon waned and he has been poor for a while now, Kaminski is maybe an obvious exception but he has always been a good keeper. The fact of the matter is that football is judged rightly on results and somehow we are third so fair play, but an interesting and I think valid observation nonetheless.

Yes, our young midfielders are inconsistent and we need someone with more experience, I have said that for a while. if a young player is good enough he will play regardless, we shouldn't avoid signing good players to leave gaps as it means the young lads have to suddenly be consistent otherwise results will nosedive. Wharton is talented and capable but inconsistent and Garrett hasn't shown that he is up to it yet IMO, I think a loan spell to League 1 would be good for his development at this stage. What is the primary aim in the second half of the season, to compete or to give young players experience? We will see with what happens in January.

You didn't miss much, don't think Tomasson was too arsed about winning and Forest could have had 7 or 8. Hirst is shocking, on what planet would we give him a run of games, what does he offer? He is weak and soft, he can't hold the ball up at all, his touch is shit, he can't win headers, he isn't particularly quick and he doesn't offer a goal threat. Surely with January on the horizon, send him back and get someone who can contribute? By the way, is Gallagher first choice for the number 9 role? He often plays wider still so we do need a competent striker ASAP.

The problem now is that one or two crazy suggestions for the managers head will now be misinterpreted as a general narraritive. We could have made 3 or 4 changes to freshen things up whilst keeping things competitive witbout going quite so weak tonight. Tomasson is not alone in treating the cups as an inconvenience as he did tonight by any means but still very frustrating and an unpleasant watch.

He is appalling, no redeeming features at all, he is good at nothing. To think he was (allegedly) our first choice target.

Big January needed. Send Mola and Hirst back, both shite. 2 full backs, an experienced midfielder and a forward needed.

Really poor night and an expected massive gulf in quality with disregard shown by such a poor team selection. It is not constructive to play so many youngsters together. Ive questioned Hyam aside the success of the window and Mola and Hirst stood out in a bad way, both woeful and need sending back in January. Pears did well to avoid us conceding 7 or 8 and Markanday was as bright as anyone without much help or much end product. Phillips was much better than Scott Wharton who again was poor as was Travis. Adam Wharton was very iffy bar his assist and Garrett is very limited. Quite apt that even in an attempt to wrap every first teamer in cotton wool that Dolan came on and got injured straight away, bad night all round.

Very weak team. Forest have gone strong too.

I find it such a shame how there is a widespread disregard towards cup competitions nowadays. How many times have we seen pre cup games in recent years that basically people don't care, lets concentrate on the league, only to go out and end up bumbling in mid table most of the time anyway. Why not try and have a bit of excitement. Tonight we have a chance to get to a quarter final and it would be great if we could manage it. For many it would be an inconvenience. Yes there are lots of league games and there is always (as there is at any time) the chance of injury but is playing a strong side putting a massive further strain on the league campaign to the point that it will massively hinder it? Also, and I am not suggesting that we would win the cup, but our League Cup win is such a fantastic memory that eclipses anything since 1995. Easy to forget that when we played Arsenal that year, they played a second string team. Does it reduce the satisfaction for anyone? You can create great memories in the cup (far in excess of beating Huddersfield or Rotherham at home) even without winning the cup, take the win at West Ham that you mention or going further back the penalty shootout win v Chelsea.

Is it that clear? Spurs did offer him a new deal and wanted to loan him (big teams try to retain value where possible so to be fair that isn't necessarily the be all and end all) and of course his injury will have set him back. His off the ball work has been mentioned so maybe his talent is there but he needs to come to terms with defensive work like Khadra. He could well stumble out of the game and it isn't an exact science but to say that it is "quite clear" that he isn't very good is unfair, he scored in the 2 cup games this season so he seemingly has somewhat of an eye for goal. There are loads of players let go by big clubs especially at a young age that become very effective especially at Championship level, even if you discount the likes of Travis who was at Liverpool until he was 17 ish, the likes of Rothwell and Armstrong were let go by big teams for the cheap amongst many more.

https://roversfans.com/index.php?threads/rovers-shutting-riverside-for-forest-game.1427/ An alternative view on tonight's potential attendance. Do people think that the amount of people slagging off our fanbase makes an impact on Waggott's decision making regarding pricing etc, or do we think that he is tone deaf enough to not even be aware of it? If he was to think, low attendance tonight is proof that lower prices make no difference, then it would be massively out of context.

To be honest, I would also be very open to loaning out Markanday. With Garrett, he has played a few games and to me the Sunderland performance was the best and even then I wasn't overly impressed, I didn't see the West Ham game though. We have 4 midfielders who I think are better at the moment plus I would like another experienced head. Markanday has had less game time but when he has featured there does seem to be a bit of a spark, but he has barely played any league minutes ever. Some regular football in League 1 to me would be more beneficial than being on the fringes of things, and we could do with some incomings who are ready to contribute now for an important second half of the season, which is more about the here and now.

Rovers, act quick? Again that is a Venkys thing, it has happened with rare exceptions throughout heir tenure, with the natural delay of seemingly getting a response from India.

Wharton was really good v Stoke and also at Hull I thought, as well as from a slightly more advanced role v Boro and when he scored v Birmingham.

Behind the scenes, we seem to have upgraded and downgraded our teams consistently across the tenure of Venkys, therefore I would suggest that no individual manager is behind it.

Your last paragraph suggests that you are going into this conversation with a confirmation bias over the unfair idea that I want to "rubbish our young lads" which means I am fighting an uphill battle to start. I have been as critical as anyone lately at the exclusion of Adam Wharton, I try and judge the players as individuals, we all have our opinions and I have not been overly impressed by Garrett from an admittedly very small sample size, not to say that he won't make the step up in time. But the main thing is that I want tomorrow nights team to be as close to our first team as possible. Garrett is 5th choice and assuming we play 2, there are 4 players who I would prefer to see in there, thus playing him would IMO weaken us. As much as Pears or Edun, perhaps not. I still think we need a more experienced head in midfield so rather than giving Garrett an occasional cameo, I would prefer him to get 20 games in League 1 if possible. Markanday is a strange one, he himself has rarely played but when he has, I have enjoyed watching him and think he has a spark. That being said, I would prefer us to start Hedges and Brereton with Dack and Dolan tomorrow, Gallagher limped off at the weekend so I would go with those 4 who IMO would be the strongest set of forwards we could play.

Terrible wording. My point was that if a poll was put up asking whether people would retain or sack Tomasson, it would be very close to 100% towards the former.

The fact that he has specifically come through our academy and is our player wouldn't come into the decision making for tomorrow night. I haven't been impressed in the few games he has played, to me he got man of the match v Sunderland because it was his debut, he was really limited on the ball and we struggled to keep it in general, he then came on v Birmingham and struggled to get to the pace of the game, then at Coventry and stupidly dived into a challenge, then he found it tough like to be fair they all did at Burnley. Plenty of time of course before I am accused of writing him off or anything like that, I think the best course of action would be to bring in a much needed more experienced midfielder and to loan Garrett out to League 1 and re-assess in the summer. With central midfield, Adam Wharton and Travis could both come in without weakening the side, if we chose not to stick with those who played at the weekend. Edun is really bad though and it would significantly weaken us, any rotation ideally would be done without making us less competitive. As it is, sadly it does seem like Tomasson will be making wholesale changes. It saddens me in general about the attitude that both managers and supporters alike seem to have towards cup competitions is one of disregard. We have been bumbling along for a decade and yet we seemingly turn our nose up at the potential of a cup quarter final in a competition that holds great memories

Hope he doesn't get silly with the changes, I want a proper go at getting into the quarter finals. Make a few changes, maybe bring some of the likes of Adam Wharton, Travis, Hedges Szmodics and Markanday in, but not token appearances for Edun, Garrett, Pears, Hirst etc.

Haha, not at all. My mistake.

Its a midweek pre Christmas cup game though so in no way a fair representation or justification for the horrendous pricing. We always say this but a quarter final place is at stake and it helps to build momentum. Plus we are just off a months break.

Kaminski Rankin Costello Hyam Wharton Pickering Buckley Wharton Hedges Dack Brereton Dolan Subs: Pears, Mola, Phillips, Travis, Morton, Szmodics, Markanday, Hirst, Gallagher There is a quarter final at stake and a chance to build momentum. Lets bloody go for it.

The key is always quality rather than ownership. I have been critical of Morton but he looks much better than Garrett at the moment, and Harlock is seemingly even behind him, therefore he should be above him. Adam Wharton IMO is the one of them all who looks ready NOW but he should be playing not because we have lost players and are expecting graduates to fill their spots, but because he as an individual is good enough. Wharton is a real asset even in the here and now, Vale and Garrett not so much.