He is not the current problem, Venkys are, have always been and always will be. A problem? Obviously. Not THE main one. Mowbray is a symptom, he should have been long since sacked. Why has he not? Because the owners do not give a shit! Backed to the hilt is an exaggeration, but we will never overachieve and properly progress under him, he has long since outstayed his welcome. How has the penny not dropped yet?! Firstly, "so shit" is hyperbolic, aside from last night when it isn't strong enough. We are bog standard, average, stagnant, regressive. But why is this manager still here, with no threat as to his future? Because of Venkys, so yes it is down to them that we are underperforming, as we have been for 11 horrendous years.

I have mentioned on another thread, I do think that we would have to overachieve to get into the play offs all things considered. I also suggested examples of how such an overachievement is far from an impossibility with a really good manager, so I do think that it is possible. I do think that the conditions to which Mowbray has worked under are over exaggerated, I don't think necessarily that it a disgrace that we have never made the play offs, and a truly terrible manager could have easily done much worse. Warnock said that he was approached by Venkys, but he knew best and ran a mile. Ultimately, that manager will likely never come under these owners, and the current one stays indefinitely, because as I keep saying, he is just a symptom. Venkys are the disease and whilst they own our football club, it will seemingly forever be incurable.

I wasn't defending him, but Mowbray isn't the problem. Ultimately throughout his time here following promotion, we have never been genuinely close to a relegation fight, nor have we come close to overachieving (which any manager would have to do to get us into the top 6, we don't have the resources of a top 6 side, but overachieving is possible as a team a season tends to prove, Coventry and Barnsley are 2 examples) and pushing on properly in his time here. Had he not been allowed to outstay his welcome so long, he would leave with his head held high, as it is, it has become a little bitter and sour. To be pedantic, you could argue that throwing his possession experiment in the bin shows that he isnt as stubborn as he seems and it has got "us up the table" slightly. His reign hasn't been disastrous, we haven't tumbled down the leagues and not returned, we have not been embroiled in constant battles at the bottom, he just is clearly incapable of pushing us on yet is left to linger because our owners don't give a shit. To go off on a tangent, the following is blatantly untrue as far as I am concerned, "We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively." Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain. Nyambe was only just breaking into the team occasionally under Coyle, now he is a regular. Travis came through under Mowbray and since he did, he has been a regular. Buckley has broke through under Mowbray and been trusted at times when sceptics (myself included) were unsure to become a regular first teamer. Whenever fit, Rankin Costello is seen by the manager as a safe pair of hands (not one that I have ever been truly convinced by) to fill in numerous positions. Wharton after a few loan spells was establishing himself as a regular last season prior to injury. The likes of Carter, Butterworth and Magloire have also been dipped in occasionally perhaps due to necessity, even though none of those 3 have really taken their chances. But yeah, Mowbray has not been taking this club forward for 18 months, I think I have been consistent in asking for change throughout that time, but it highlights what we are dealing with in that it has never seemed likely at any point during those 18 months. I just can't abide by anyone in any way defending or praising the owners considering what we continue to see before us. Even praising them for merely raising the share capital to offset the debts for one of their businesses that they themselves neglect otherwise as if it is a good deed, how low are our standards? Standing in the cold in an empty Ewood last night watching a crap manager and a crap set of players get thumped by a record scoreline whilst our owners are on the other side of the world probably totally unaware, it just makes me sick.

The manager should have been sacked 18 months ago. But if he left today, he hasn't really caused much damage in that we are in a slightly better position than when he came. Venkys have caused untold, continuous damage, and is another symptom that stems from India. They don't care about the club, so they just allow him to crack on even whilst he underperforms, hence why he is a symptom, the root cause is Venkys, always has been, always will be. It is more that I find it utterly baffling that people actively defend the owners even now. Carter was crap, I suppose coming into a game against Fulham who were 2 up and a man up is difficult, but he wasn't very good, and to be honest hasn't really convinced me in any game that he has played for the first team, he did ok at Forest away as a stand in right back but otherwise he has been very shaky, even after a loan spell at Burton in which he apparently did brilliantly in. But as I said in the Fulham thread, no outfield player was over 2 out of 10. Unsure if you watched the Huddersfield game when Magloire came on and the Blackpool game in which he started, I watched the former on TV and was at the latter, and in 2 other poor team performances, Magloire still stood out (in a bad way) amidst that all, he was horrendous.

I would disagree, Magloire is much worse. But Carter is miles off the standard too. Van Hecke is crap aswell. Hopefully we have at least 2 available of Lenihan, Ayala and Wharton going forward.

One word, Venkys.

Venkys wont even be aware that we have a game on Saturday, never mind if a protest took place. Think back to the Kean protests, they dont care, in the end years later he resigned, they didnt sack him. Any protests would need to be against Venkys, they are the issue, a protest wouldnt get them out, sadly we are all helpless.

Absolutely crazy that some people still seem in denial as to where all of our problems stem from.

An absolute joke. If ever you wanted a perfect illustration of our negligent owners, last night was it. They deserve our ire more than anyone else. Watching a manager who should have been potted 18 months ago lead out a desperate group of players cobbled together (8 kids/academy graduates, a loanee, a freebie, 3 cheap signings and just one of any value) whilst our absent owners are nowhere to be seen whilst their "baby" sinks to a new low. Little surprised that our record home loss in 146 years is within the 11 years that they have been here. Little use or need for detailed analysis, none of the outfield players would have scored over 2 out of 10, but special mentions for the idiot that is Van Hecke, his early appearances have threatened the sort of clumsiness and cowardice that we saw yesterday, horrendous defending. And Edun is not a left back, technically and physically fine but AWOL too often including for their 3rd and 4th goals. Plus Rothwell should hope that Gerrard wasn't watching. Venkys out. Mowbray out. I think they turned up. It is Rovers that don't turn up on a cold night in Blackburn.

@only2garners @K-Hod please would you again be able to flag up the piss poor service on the concourses at the moment which was brought up at the last forum I believe and typically of him, Waggott seems to have done nothing. I went down 5 minutes before half time last night straight into a queue for a much needed beer, and at the point of the second half kicking off, I was 5 or 6 places away from the front of the queue still, which is pathetic. Every single person who joined the queue after me had given up and at that point I did too, in one queue of one concourse, that might be £100 down the drain so god knows how much money the club is failing to bring in by willing members of a skeletal attendance to begin with. Surely they have to look at pre pouring drinks, the people serving are painfully slow but I am unsure if that element of it can be improved. If Waggott is worried that some people will not be content with pre poured drinks, maybe have some queues for pre poured, and some (which will invariably be longer although somewhat reduced) being poured on demand. Last night was the second half time of the season that I have gone for a pint and the second time that I have had no choice but to give up.

A team packed full of Championship experience and players who are used to playing regularly at this level including midweek im sure will have no fears. The overused cliche you quote isnt even accurate as it isnt raining, and they are coming from London, not Rio De Janiero.

100%. Football looked alien to him.

It certainly doesnt apply at Championship level. In their last 3 seasons at this level, they have finished in the top 6 in all 3 seasons, getting promoted in the latest 2, and flying high again this season. Doesnt scream of a fragility to me.

By dumped, do you mean not played at a point when he was so far off the standard required that playing him had a massively negative impact on the team? Played wide, he plays wide now, he also plays wide for Chile. And he played once or twice in the reserves as an attempt to get him some game time of some description and also some confidence. How is Rothwell or even Nyambe a case of their mental state being managed incorrectly?

I am not sure how websites like whoscored come to their "ratings" or how much stock should be placed in them. The very same website has his pass completion at 45.5% which gives you an indication of his inability to link play.

Conte is a brilliant appointment at Spurs, crazy that United haven't pushed the boat out for him, and impressive that Spurs have attracted him.

I am not convinced that Rothwell is best suited to playing deeper though. Defensively and off the ball he doesn't convince at all and often leaves gaps, and he doesn't control games from there. His main contributions this season have been in the final third, his runs against Huddersfield and Reading and his goal and assist against Coventry for example. "You said that about" is not a valid argument either, each player should be judged on their individual merits. If I said that Kaminski is not suited to playing in a midfield 2, would you say the same then? Dack was excellent when he got fit last season and was standing out prior to his unfortunate injury. Of course there are question marks but I am excited to see our best player hopefully return.

Im not sure that Buckley would suit playing deeper in a midfield 2. His main attribute is winning the ball back higher up and he wouldnt provide the defensive protection in front of the back 4. Also ideally we can get an upgrade on Gallagher, I think with his inability to bring others into play and link up, he wouldnt get the best out of Dack. I suspect that Brereton may leave with Rothwell at the end of the season.

I fear that these 2 games this week have a similar feeling to the final 2 games before the last international break. Our squad seems stretched to the same degree as it did going into the shoddy performances against Huddersfield and Blackpool, with a feeling of lets limp through until the break and reset. Looking forward, the christmas schedule with the current squad seems an even bigger worry because even with games in blocks of 6 or 7, we have got towards both of these international breaks looking very stretched, so an even longer and more intense schedule may well be the time that the piss poor budget of the summer and thus an inability to sign quality or quantity could sting.

So much of the new terminology is totally unnecessary, a prime example being vertical passing.

Field tilts being mentioned on Monday Night Football. Me neither.

I do worry on Wednesday, with such a thin squad, I can't see us being particularly competitive against a strong Fulham side. Assuming that Nyambe and Gallagher are both not fit enough, I think there is a tough decision to be made. Khadra for me as been as poor as Poveda, maybe first impressions are everything, his debut was a lively 15 minutes in a borefest v Hull, but he hasn't done much, and he was really poor giving away the free kick on Saturday. Butterworth seems to be rated much higher based I believe on being a permanently contracted player, but I don't think that he has been any better than the other 2, accepting that all 3 are having to live mainly off cameos, but all look like massive downgrades on the main 3. I would be tempted to make a more defensive change and bring in Carter at right back, even though I have serious question marks about him being anything close to Championship standard himself. He is obviously more defensively competent than Buckley, who could then move back into midfield. The downside is Rothwell being moved which is not ideal but I think he could be a big threat on the counter attack. Travis and Buckley could really press Seri and Cairney/Reed with Johnson behind to cover whoever they choose behind Mitrovic, possibly Decordova Reid. Kaminski Carter Lenihan Van Hecke Edun Travis Johnson Buckley Dolan Brereton Rothwell Mowbray has said that it has been decided that Nyambe will play in one of the 2 games only this week. I would be tempted to play him on Wednesday over Carter here, and play Rankin Costello on Saturday 5 days after a 90 minutes today.

Dack is an upgrade on Rothwell if fit, he is our best player so he has to play. Ideally, that would be with Rothwell but sadly Venkys dont have the ambition for that. I do wonder how Dack will play, I think the worst idea would to play him deep, he needs to be in the final third, not sure 4-3-3 suits him.

I am not necessarily saying to drop him, but he missed a couple of really good chances and again lost the ball a number of times with his inability to control the ball and bring others into play, to answer your question.

100%. He has spent probably less than 2 months with Chile so whilst he may well have learnt, there is no way that he could have transformed from the player we saw in the first 2 years to what we see today, the main thing thay he will have got from playing for Chile and the fanfare he has received is extra confidence. He was much improved last season and noticeably had grown physically and learnt how to use his body much better. The easy narrative is that it is all down to Chile as a further stick to beat Mowbray with but it is simply not the case that the transformation has come solely from there.