Yep, and ultimately both are solely promise at the moment rather than anything tangible.

It's not about asking to come off, even if there was a small risk, it was irresponsible to carry on and make it worse, especially as its an injury he has had problems with before.

He is a really poor pundit too. Kept forgetting players names!

Is it as black or white as that? Brereton took 2 players on and pulled a ball back for a goal v Doncaster which Armstrong couldnt finish first time, and Rankin Costello scored. A great bit of play but not an assist in the record books. Rankin Costello played a simple 5 yard pass and Johnson scored from 25 yards with a big goalkeeping error. I think the only real statistic that you can really treat with any objectivity is goals scored. Assists are of course important but in this instance, an assist isnt a straightforward assist. And of course, when you start looking at pass completions etc, they all need to be taken with a massive pinch of salt due to various factors, for example the style and quality of the side. Put Adarabioyo in Wycombes team and his pass success rate would be lower than Derrick Williams for us.

Breretons price tag in my opinion goes for him as much as it goes against him. Because of it, he has perhaps got more game time than his performances have warranted to date. Also, because people are so desperate for him to do well to justify the fee, if he does a nice run or something very small, people get more excited than if it was anyone else. The thing is, to warrant a place, he has to contribute goals. I don't think he will ever become prolific but he needs to at least chip in. Even if he gets 8-10 in a 46 game season, its not remarkable but if he is also is assisting, is taking people on, and Armstrong and Dack are the main 2 goalscorers getting the ma. It is infuriating to see him well outside the box when we have the ball near the oppositions goal. He cant continue to have reviews of, "went on a couple of nice runs but missed an open net," " went on a couple of nice runs but kicked out and got sent off," "went on a couple of nice runs but fell over the ball trying to take it round the keeper when gifted with a 1 on 1" and "went on a couple of nice runs but when the ball dropped to him he took too long and got tackled." I dont think he is capable out wide but his positioning and lack of bravery last night when he was played centrally was absolutely infuriating. In the 4-3-3 I do think that if he does play centrally we will be totally devoid of any goal threat. There is no way that it was a strategical ploy to have him stood so far away from the danger zone every single time. I dont think Dack would work as a number 9, then again, Gallagher out wide never worked and he continued to play it stubbornly!

I think that might be wishful thinking. I think that when Dack does return, he will go with Dack as a false 9, Armstrong left, Gallagher right, and then when that doesnt work, maybe revert back to 4-2-3-1, with Gallagher still wide.

Akinfenwa is injured I think but if we feared him in anyway, we may aswell pack it in now. Suspect he will be very much a parody figure in the Championship.

Is Dack back in full training, setback free? Was supposed to be in non contact training for 3 weeks.

I would say that there is very little in it in picking players to play alongside Armstrong in that front 3. We both put Gallagher straight back in our team and I know that neither of us are his biggest fan. I am also not a fan of judging players based on pre season friendlies, although there is plenty of credit to be shared based on ours. Chapman was excellent v Fleetwood and got a very good goal. Dolan impressed when he came on, putting in a great cross and also scoring after a blunder at Blackpool. Brereton got 2 lovely goals at Blackpool, he scored 2 in pre season last season v lower league opposition, the season gets underway and its back to runs that dont penetrate, ducking out of headers and standing 10 yards outside the box when players have the ball wide, offering no goal threat. Assists cant really be viewed black or white I suppose too, v Doncaster Brereton took 2 players on and pulled it back but because the initial shot was cleared off the line. Im sure you would agree that the work for that goal was more impressive than Rankin Costello playing a simple 5 yard pass before Johnson hits one from 25 yards that goes through the keepers hands. You say that Dolan "produced magic every time" which I think is again a little hyperbolic. He has been a refreshing bonus, and he should be part of the squad he has still a way to go to really push himself to the front of the queue, hes had 2 exciting cameos and one start, a near miss, a poor decision leading to an opponents goal, some step overs, but magic every time? i have seen demands of new 5 year deals, massive wage hikes (not from you) and lets take it one step at the time. I dont know about you but I think we need another player across that front line. I am not convinced between Rothwell, Dolan, Brereton, Rankin Costello, how much substance we will get from any of them this season. I am glad we have young talent, but I think there is a big burden on Armstrong, Dack who is yet to return and I fear may be shoved in a false 9 role that doesnt suit him, and Gallagher who himself has question marks over him, unless at least one of those 4 really has a breakthrough season and gets a few goals.

in 20 minutes Because you have a known dislike of Chapman for not being arsed when playing in the reserves, I think it clouds your judgement as to what consists of a chance. Giving him 20 minutes a couple of times every season isnt a fair chance really, we may aswell not bother at all. Fair play for the goal, the assist was very much a 5 yard square pass leading to a 25 yard shot so hardly warranting of massive praise. Like I said, I dont think he has been that effective, I am yet to see him impose himself much at senior level or demonstrate what his game is about. Hes a young lad, maybe a little overawed, in time hopefully that will change. To clarify, I don't think that Chapman is this unbelievable talent who will come in and make a massive difference. It is a judgement call really, 2 places in our front line are up for grabs at the moment. Armstrong is a very good player of course. Gallagher is average. Aside from that, Brereton, at the point now where a couple of tidy runs from deep and absolutely no goal threat is grounds for optimism, Rothwell, could play in CM or wide left but usually flatters to deceive, Dolan, perhaps as deserving as anyone although the unexpected nature of his first team inclusion has possibly garnered more excitement than maybe it warrants, although he looks bright for sure. As long as Armstrong plays, I am not really fussed about which 2 partner him, because no one stands out there really, none convince me at this stage that they will give us a cutting edge. And when Dack comes back, I suspect that the current 4-3-3 fad may have to come to an end.

Has to be a game that we win, the least difficult game we will face this season, Wycombe are a very limited team with a very direct style, their successful passing rate at the weekend was 30 odd % and we need to be getting a win to kick start our season. Kaminski Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Williams Buckley Evans Holtby Chapman Gallagher Armstrong Subs: Eastham, Rankin Costello, Wharton, Johnson, Rothwell, Dolan, Brereton Would give Ayala his first start, theoretically he shouldnt be overly worked. Williams not ideal at left back but better than Bell, Evans sitting in front of the back 4 and maybe a chance for Buckley who with Holtby could hopefully give us the craft to break down a side who will come for a point. Flip of a coin across the front line, maybe play Gallagher if he is fit with Armstrong coming from the left, Rankin Costello hasnt done enough for me to warrant a start in this game, maybe time to give Chapman a go. Still think we need another attacking player in this window.

Very disapointing but unsurprising.

Travis is going to be a big loss. Im surprised (well not actually) that journalists never questioned why he wasnt taken off earlier.

Lenihan was really average in central midfield when he played there for us, and wasnt really able to get a regular place there amidst some terrible players, Akpan etc. His attributes are far better suited to being a centre back, he is brave, he is good in the air but is really limited on the ball. We have seen in the last 2 seasons that when he starts at CB, we gain far more points and concede far less goals than when he is missing. He is far from perfect, he can be rash and he can make mistakes but we do far better with him in our defence than without and he could never pass the ball well enough even to be a more disruptive midfield player. I think that changes dependant on position though. A goalkeeper or a centre back having a quiet game doing very little is often a good sign. A more attacking player doing nothing is different and Rankin Costello didnt do anything productive. Agree that Bell was poor, not as mistake prone as on Saturday when his errors led to Bournemouth attacks, but his crossing was typically dismal.

Definitely a player of real promise, flair, skills, pace, very exciting from the very little that we have seen. Still think talk of 5 year deals, quadrupling his wages, its all a bit premature though.

No.

Conversely, having seen him play with the kids regularly and seemingly being impressive there, you might be being overly keen to see him impress for the first team. He didnt do anything to impress, he wasnt on his own, our attacking players across the board were ineffective for all the tidy play behind it. Football is about results, not nice comments from the opposition. I have said that there are elements of the performances, especially last night, and individual performances that impressed me. As I said, until this style of play starts yielding results, then I wont be the only one who has doubts. Your comments about Travis are absolutely crazy. I dont care if he wants to come off or not, if there was a risk in keeping him on, which there was, then force him to come off. You are implying that Mowbray might have tried and been overruled by a player! And stop talking bollocks about Chapman. I suggested him at times last season because we had Sam Gallagher playing as a winger, something you initially denied. I had a bizarre idea that a natural wide man would be more effective than a clumsy striker who was achieving nothing there. I have repeatedly insisted that I feel that we need to sign wide men, and even at the moment, aside from Armstrong and Dack, who both want to play central, I am unsure that any of the other attacking players are capable of contributing goals and assists or even of playing in the wide roles.

I disagree, as long as its not with over the top conclusions, he will never make it, he is shit etc, which I havent seen. He was anonymous really in both games and I am yet to see what he really offers. He is quite slow, which is fine, not all attacking players are fast, but he hasnt stood out with his technical ability, his know how of where the ball will drop, his skill, his passing, he hasnt really got involved.

@chaddyrovers the point in which I will be on board with this new tactical overhaul will be when it starts to get results. We have played 433 under Mowbrays new possession based style in 10 league games and collected 10 points which is a really poor return. I didnt feel like we would score if we were playing until next week last night. My point about being caught on the counter was more prevalent on Saturday when they did score but we were countered on a few times last night and I worry that it will continue if Mowbray insists on having both full backs so high up. Its no use signing a good centre back and expecting that it will solve our defensive woes. I also think that if that goal last night goes past Walton, your reaction would have been far more critical. I know that Travis is a warrior and wants to play on. But after he picked up the injury, the decision should have been taken out of his hands and no risk should have been taken. For you to approve playing on with what has turned out to be a very serious injury and a problem he has had before because he "isnt a soft arse" is laughable. And the sooner Dack is back, the better as we only have Armstrong who offers a goal threat at the moment. @JoeH you really think Rankin Costello was at all effective? Did any of those crosses go to a Rovers player?

He was a number 9 for an hour tonight and he just repeatedly failed to even get into the box, every single time he would come short, he would hover outside the box, there is a reason why he isnt coming close to scoring. He is capable of going on clumsy but effective runs where he beats people but they are always in harmless areas of the pitch for the opposition. He also a few times ducked out of headers, that isnt acceptable for a striker desperate to impress. He wont start scoring goals until he gets into the box and until he starts being braver.

He wont start scoring goals and being effective as long as hes standing miles outside the box and ducking out of headers.

What is Garner like, barely played any senior football, any good? Dont think that we will spend sell on fees on 2m transfers.

Rich Sharpe I believe was told that any central midfielder coming in would be a loan.

There was the main one in the centre when he was down with the physio for a couple of minutes stretching his leg, with 10 minutes to go and all 3 subs left. At that stage he should have been forced to come off. Now we will pay the price and need to find a replacement.

Kaminski should have done better in my opinion, the defence in the build up were all over the place and it did come on the counter attack which is a worry that I have flagged because we keep playing with our full backs both high up and it will cause us issues on the counter attack. I dont doubt any of that, but the finish wasnt in the corner and somewhat went through the keeper. Travis wouldnt come off? Do soft arses refuse to play with damaged knee ligaments? Ultimately if he had an injury, he should have been told that he has to come off, not left on to make it worse and now miss many weeks. I would prefer to get battered and win to be fair. There are some positives tonight for sure but ultimately I am worried as to the vulnerability of our centre backs playing with our full backs so high, and I am unconvinced that we have enough of a cutting edge. I dont think we would have scored had we played until next week. Rankin Costello, Brereton, Dolan, Chapman, Rothwell, plenty of pace and energy there, but how many goals? I also dont know how Dack will come back in without a change of shape, but we do need him back because he is one of only 2 players who can get us goals. 40 million of that was spent on Joelinton, a total waste of space! I think this comes down to how much faith you have in what Mowbray is doing. Trying to play more expansively, 4-3-3, full backs high up, sometimes false 9s, wide strikers, this whole new world, it ultimately got a very poor points return in the last 9 games, and we have lost the first 2 this season, difficult games, games that we have been praised plenty in, but games we have been on the wrong side of. I have doubts about various aspects of it, and ultimately football is about points, not pretty passing, so until we start picking up points regularly playing this way, I will be skeptical. I think there will have to be a compromise.