Are we really overachieving? You seem desperate to suggest we are but I think we are about on par in terms of league position compared to where we should be, in terms of wages as much as everything else. There are teams above us (Bristol City, Hull, QPR and Birmingham) all of whom I would suggest are "overachieving" more than we are. Whereas below us, only Stoke (mismamaged this season and under considerable reconstruction) and Preston (riddled with injuries and have fat less resources) surprise me in terms of being below us. I also think you are overestimating our competitiveness by mentioning just Preston and Wigan. We have been beaten by more than one goal on quite a few occasions. Mowbray is doing a good job but his ability to build the squad with new players is questionable and hit and miss and his loyalty to some is also a big concern.

I would suspect that even if his contract is highly incentive based, there is little to no chance that a player would accept a pay as you play without a guaranteed wage of some description.

Was a horrendous game, them 2 late goals perhaps mask what was a terribly flawed gameplan, that played right into Millwalls hands with the ball forever in the air, Millwall werent very effective at what they do best although to be fair results are what matters but as Mowbray said we will need to massively improve going forward. Lenihan and Rodwell were outstanding at centre back, Lenihan in particular was a man mountain and Rodwell added some composure. Bell was absolutely rotten again, think we need to move him on, has to be high on our transfer agenda to bring in a left back. Nyambe was much better when he came on and has been very unlucky that Mowbrays insistence that Bennett must be shoehorned in somewhere even if there is no space in midfield has left him at full back where he cannot. That said, I have long since called for a vast improvement from Bennett in terms of goals and assists and he has come up with 2 superb assists in the last week so I would move him forward for the Newcastle. Travis was more subdued that he has been for most of yesterday but still better than those around him and was superb for both goals. Has to be one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment. Evans, Reed and Conway I thought were all poor, and Dack was also probably wondering why he was even in the team with the tactics we adopted. One man who is beyond question for the occasional poor performance considering his statistics. I thought Nuttall was ineffective but scored his second goal for us that was a total fluke, maybe its not a mere coincidence. Armstrong was superb when he came on and the difference.

Find this totally bizarre. He has 10 league goals and 4 assists, and 3 of each extra in the cups. Hes a consistent source of goals in a team that plays long ball football, he is by far our best player, hes not holding us back.

The Evans and Travis partnership was very impressive in the last 2 games and shouldnt be broken up. I would drop Bennett and play Reed wide but I suspect that he will be shoehorned into right back. Not sure on the rules of playing Dack twice either...

No.

Raya has undoubtedly massively improved, but he miscues far more than "the odd kick" and is still prone to an error. Still, goalkeeper is well down any list of potential improvements.

I even think that Hanley is categorised as an extreme type of blood and thunder defender which is a little unfair. He was very intelligent in terms of organising and winning free kicks, and he also had a level of composure on the ball that often was ignored, the penalty he won v Millwall being a prime example. He is certainly no Mulgrew in terms of stepping out but hes not just a clumsy oaf whos big and brave, hes more than that.

Olsson, as well as being almost certainly unobtainable, and overrated, is injured for the rest of the season. https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2016/may/hanley-named-player-of-the-year/ A very good Championship defender.

He'd certainly offer far more on the wing than what weve got. Mowbrays choices of wide men, especially this season have not worked out in terms of goals and assists. Marshall offers far more, getting 3 goals and 5 assists in 16 appearances at Millwall last season and playing a huge role in their sudden surge up to the brink of the play offs. He has a track record at this level too. I find it strange that our fans turn our nose up at him (admittedly he is a prick but still) yet foam at the mouth over Chapman, who yes certainly has talent, but has injury issues, our manager has admitted he doesnt seem him starting games any time soon, and he doesnt have a track record. I alsways found him to be far less effective at full back, and he played there at a time when the main alternative was Adam Henley and then a very raw Ryan Nyambe (in his last half season under Coyle) therefore it was needs must. As has been touched on, the conversation is a bit moot as he would never come back but he would walk into the side. I find Mowbrays comments about needing a target man a little strange, and am unconvinced that he sees a winger as a priority which is a worry. He said “With total respect to Ben Woodburn, we have invested in a player (Ben Brereton) who has mobility, can run with the ball, create chances and score goals and is a mobile, agile, type of striker." Not only have we not seen any of that, but it suggests that the solution to our winger issue is Ben Brereton in Mowbrays eyes! It also mentions Sam Gallagher as a target man, but thats not a quote from Mowbray so hopefully it is just an inaccurate comparison from Rich Sharpe. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17349186.mowbray-distances-rovers-from-links-with-liverpool-youngster/ No. Rothwell plays wide almost exclusively, he has played central midfield once or twice (think for the last 15 minutes against Rotherham (?) at home he went there as we chased the game, he played there at Bournemouth too) but he plays on the left wing usually. Theres no way he can be trusted to be a central midfielder, he takes risks running with the ball and they would be potentially fatal there, yet far more dangerous in the final third, assuming he doesnt lose it as much as he did at Bramall Lane. There are very few occasions (when hes carrying a knock) that I would consider taking Dack off full stop, so for me thats not a viable place for him either. But he would be first back up should Dack get injured IMO. If Downing goes, he has to be replaced surely.

Surely Rothwell is that man? Doubt they would loan us him to sit on the bench.

There is chance of a return so its moot but Rhodes proved he is effective even as a lone striker, he scored goals on his own or as a pair. In that first season he played as a lone striker and was incredible. Marshall would also be a good signing as he proved at Millwall last year but again theres no chance.

Your original statement was correct.

Is there not a rule whereby replays have to be priced the same as the initial game?

Most of his cameos in the last couple of months have been central so thats blatantly not true. But youd see some of them attributes (pace, strength, skill etc) even if he was wide. Need to sign an actual, starting winger. I think that Palmer got a raw deal especially compared to Rothwell, who had contributed even less than Palmer (neither has had a fair run or game time in their natural position) and that was evident after the Sheffield United game when Rothwell spent the whole game running the ball into blind alleys, Palmer was much better yet Rothwell seemed to get the plaudits. I dont think Armstrong has had many chances central, in fact I would say that Brereton has played more minutes centrally than him. Armstrong has been poor for most of the season but at least he has shown a bit of promise in terms of his pace and last season his finishing. There is something there to work with at least. If you genuinely think that me or anyone spends their hard earned money to hope that our players fail then you are sadly mistaken. One thing ive said throughout is that we shouldnt sign Sam Gallagher, a similar type of striker to both Brereton and Armstrong, and that signing a striker should be well down the priority list as we cant afford to write off 9m worth of investment down the middle or stunt their development to sign a very average striker of the same ilk on a temporary basis. With Brereton in particular, I am banking quite blindly on him becoming a success. I actually think his price tag works in his favour, would he warrant a place in the 18 over Nuttall if he had signed for free? Not too sure.

The thing is Brereton has not done anywhere near enough in his cameos, nor in his start against Sheffield United, to warrant giving him a start. The only thing that would justify giving him a start is ironically the 7m price tag that many seem insistent on protecting him from in their demands for patience. Its nothing to do with his age. His age would account for inconsistency, assuming a raw potential is there beneath it. Yes hes 19, but hes not a total novice, he played over 50 games for Forest. Armstrong despite his frustratingly inconsistent nature has done far more to feel aggrieved should Brereton start the next game that Graham misses over him as a central forward. Armstrongs end product has been really poor but, on the assumption that we would need to change our style of play to accomodate either as a striker, Armstrong has at least shown blistering pace and we know he can finish from last season. One thing that makes no sense and ties in with this thread is making a temporary addition of another striker who doesnt hold the ball up well enough to play the tactics we currently adopt, in Sam Gallagher. Its also important to note that the "playing out of position" argument loses credibility with each passing game. Strangely since Mowbray commented on why he doesnt see him as a striker yet, he has started featuring predomanintly down the middle.

I may have been watching different games but most of his recent appearances have been central, not wide. I think we should really go to beat Newcastle and then Watford and I dont think Brereton starting over Graham reflects that or is deserved.

Ive seen him live in the vast majority of his games in person and I dont think that his movement is good, he rarely puts himself in a good position especially when the ball is wide, plus I dont think he shields the ball well when he dribbles. Stand by my comments about those saying survival would be an achievement, obviously you do not fall under that category. And yeah most of the budget Mowbray went on to spend was blown on an apprentice.

Palmer will need replacing, ideally with a natural wide man rather than another square peg in a round hole. And not Chapman, one that isnt riddled with injuries and can be a starter, not an impact sub.

Does he? Haha. He failed to score as I said after November.

The usual 2, Gallagher and Chapman! Lets hope we dont stick to the same names.

Nowhere near enough. He did it brilliantly for the second v West Brom but he spends far too much time at walking pace and not enough really attacking the full back.

I saw a couple of tweets saying that maybe he could be worth another chance. With him and Samuel (who didnt score post November in League 1) its often a case of absence making the heart grow fonder. Neither are anywhere near the standard we need.

That then brings us back round to, could we afford to blow most of our budget on someone seen as an apprentice?! That cannot contribute and provide at least pressure on Graham for his spot? Yes hes only 19, but considering his price tag and his reputation following 2 seasons of regular Championship football, I think we all thought he would be seen as more than an "apprentice." Thats the first aspect of why this signing is so dubious. Anyone who was happy with just survivial is both massively unambitious and pessimistic. We have a competitive, mid table budget for wages, we have a very healthy transfer budget (which we choose to mainly splurge on an "apprentice") and many of our players have proven track records at Championship level. Lets not be fooled by a season under Coyle where we had the likes of Brown, Greer, Lowe, Akpan, Feeney, Emnes and Hoban on short term deals that Mowbray managed to shed off with ease at the end of that season. And the second aspect of this signing. We know hes young, hes raw. But he hasnt shown ANY positive attributes. Pace, skill, strength, a first touch, aeriel ability, goal threat, even a first touch or work rate to chase the ball down when hes fresh. I think Mercer makes a very valid point about style of play, our reliance on long balls and reluctance to as of yet even remotely move towards the style of play that Mowbray repeatedly mentions he would like to move towards is a concern in terms of progression; when will we see steps towards this on the pitch? However, to suggest as he has that Mowbray is a "dinosaur" and that we should instantly expect promotion is a bit ridiculous, albeit it is unfair to stretch your "instant gratification generation" comment to anyone beside him, S8 & Blue. And before you mention Brereton, please see my comments above on why he warrants his criticism for me. As you say, it is sensible, normal and realistic to have a plan to gradually develop the team, window by window. My only concern in this regard is Mowbrays success/failure in the transfer market, and how progressive I can see this process being. I feel like his work in the transfer market has left a lot to be desired. Dack was obviously an absolute masterstroke by him but aside from that, its been very patchy. His other signings last year ranged from ones that could have a short term impact at League 1 level (Downing, Armstrong, Antonsson, Payne, Smallwood) to some absolute wasters. (Gladwin, Hart, Whittingham and Samuel has been poor) With greater resources, he hasnt improved the side at all really in the summer bar the temporary addition of Reed, and I also worry that turning a blind eye to the foreign market and seemingly focusing on the same pool of players (Gallagher, Chapman) will stunt our progression. This isnt to say Mowbray is a poor manager or one who shouldnt be trusted. I think a lot of his quality lies with his man management and also his ability to get more from the players he inherited. But he will have to massively improve in the transfer market.

The thing is, age alone is not enough to justify a big fee. No one has pointed out any attributes that he has showcased in a Rovers shirt I actually think his price tag is somewhat working to his advantage as im not convinced his form from his cameos has done enough to guarantee a place in the 18 over even Nuttall. You say he is learning from Graham but ive seen no signs of it yet. He does the opposite of Graham, he doesnt hold the ball up, he doesnt press with the same intensity, he doesnt challenge for headers, he doesnt offer a goal threat. Your primary argument against those who suggest that the Brereton money could have been spent far more effectively is that the market is difficult, not every signing is guaranteed to be a success and theres a chance any alternative would have proved equally ineffective thus far. That goes without saying but in no way justifies the deal. @savage90 makes an excellent point on scouting and one that I have also mentioned, I feel that if our transfer list compromises of solely British based players including former players like Gallagher and Chapman then we are working at a disadvantage. Whether that be a restriction from above Mowbrays head, or a choice by Mowbray to solely target British players, and if its the latter I consider that to be a narrow minded principle. Huddersfield are an excellent example of what knowledge of the foreign markets can do. They were pottering around the lower end of the Championship until they exploited in particular the German market, signing the likes of Kachunga, Schindler, Lowe, Hefele and Quaner, blended in with a couple of loans in Mooy and Palmer and of course some British players they were at a massive advantage. You look at strikers like Pukki and Maupay who have been brought into the league by competitors (and we have competitive wages to offer) and it makes the Brereton deal look even less value for money.