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Get promoted and the rest takes care of itself---a point clearly missed by our beloved owners. The only plan worth having. How did the team "run out of steam"? After a collapse we rallied to finish 7th. On a good run at the end of the season.

But the likes of Luxembourg Armenia have improved. Who's to say the others won't get better at some point

They've been playing the best teams for years and been getting battered for years, to be fair.

I hate football I don't want my club to have a plan to 'build value'. In most ways it doesn't bother me in the slightest what the value is. Rather, the plan should be to 'get promoted' and given we finished 2 points off a playoff game worth 180m, we should be looking at what 'value' there is to those two points and questioning whether those nasty demanding snakes could've got us over the line with some reinforcements in January. The aggregator to it all, is this isn't the first 'transitional cycle' we've been through where some depth in January gets us with a sniff of promotion.

I just wore Y front type underpants that were snug around the family jewels but tbh I had no problems at all (40 years ago 😁)

We had a squad that finished 7th on the final day after spending the entire season sat in the top 6, despite being so badly mismanaged that the manager ran off to have a relegation battle with Derby rather than try and finish the job. I think everyone in football would focus on retaining the best parts of what was there last season, and add to it to try and go one better in the hope of getting into the top 6 this season. That means keeping the spine of the team, adding some depth and more quality. I don't agree that they 'ran out of steam'. Their efforts were derailed by another negligent January transfer window failing to improve the squad in any shape or form and then by the club allowing its manager to walk out because it wouldn't give him the tools to build or strengthen us further. There is zero evidence available that the new signings possess 'more steam' than those that have left. Infact a number of them are unlikely to be up to speed or familiar with the physical demands of the Championship and will take time to adjust. I don't agree there is a strategy other than saving more money and dumbing things down further. No I'm not behind it. I think it will end in relegation to League One, or at best several years of struggle in the Championship, neither of which were necessary given where we were last season. 'Build value' can't be done due to our contract approach - how can it? - even if these new players turn out to be world beaters we won't pay them the going Championship rate - so they will be off at the first opportunity. The only way we can build a quality squad is by paying them a competitive wage and offering 3-4 year deals. Otherwise it is a revolving door.

Splashing the cash? Uncommitted players?

San Marino will never be anything but a mismatch, adds absolutely no value for them to be playing top tier nations again and again.

Keane compares rogers to gazza, I know that's hyperbole but he's very similar. His strength, technical ability

It would be cruel to discount the minnows like San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Wales (just kidding) the only way they improve is playing against the best teams

and which of the ones that left would have stayed if they were given the contract/wages they demanded? IMO, probably only Dolan tried his best hard enough consistently, the others i dont think we'll miss and look where he's managed to get himself, a decent side in La Liga. I mean its football and also a business that's how it works, but the difference now is there’s at least a plan to build value and identity and better than recycling the same group and expecting promotion to magically happen.

Exactly, there’s a reason Chorley and Liverpool don’t enter the FA Cup at the same stage.

Isn't that the stuff we all wanted to see! When we come against teams who have that and we didn't play like that. Refreshing to see players being explosive and running on goal

Smarter than clinging to a squad that ran out of steam? Absolutely. Travis gave everything, no doubt but sentiment doesn’t win games and he wanted to be with his chum. The club are taking calculated risks to break out of the cycle of overpaying for comfort and getting mid-table returns. The foreign signings are gambles but so was sticking with a group that couldn’t get us over the line. The idea that the old squad was full of loyalty and the new uns are just mercenaries? Players move on when better offers come, that's football. The difference now is we’re not bending over backwards to keep players who’ve hit their ceiling. There now is a strategy you can either get behind or not: build value, build hunger, build a team that fits the manager’s vision. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than nostalgia and hoping for the best.

Perhaps an FA cup style entrance for higher seeds

Players tend to want to stay where there is ambition and where they are treated correctly contract and wage wise. I'd like to know who out of the ones who've left were the ones you are referring to as not trying hard enough ? Aside from Buckley i don't think that accusation stands up after a 7th placed finish. Only thing they are building for is to increase the squad value ready for another round of sales and another reset in a couple of seasons once they've finished cashing in a replacing the last of the current lot. Then they'll move the deckchairs again staff wise and a fresh set of faces will tell us the exciting journey we are about to go on again. Which division we are in then is open to debate.

Is the club being smarter? Offloading people like Travis (academy developed and cost us nothing) and then having to take a big gamble going into the foreign markets paying cash to bring in someone injured, unfit and unproven at this level I don't see as 'smarter' - I see it as taking a massive gamble. Pats on the back that the new guy falls within the 'wage cap' but you have to factor in the money we've shelled out to bring him and others in that wouldn't have been needed had we paid the existing proven crop more money. 'Building a squad that wants to be here' - the last crop of players wanted to be here and their efforts in the first 6 months of last season proved that. A more committed, united, hard working group you would not find in the Championship under Eustace and led by the senior players. That's been dismantled - deliberately - for non-footballing reasons. It doensn't mean the previous players didn't want to be here and doesn't mean that the new lot do either - they'll be here because we are paying them more than their last clubs and will be out of here as soon as they get a better offer elsewhere. You make it sound like there's a grand strategy to build a great side in place - but by your own admission and the 'wage cap' that will never come to fruition because players will want away the minute another club comes sniffing or Rovers decide to cash in because we aren't willing to offer them pay or terms in keeping with the Championship standard.

Nah probably not top 6 this season to be fair but they’re building a squad that actually wants to be here. No more passengers, it’s a reset, younger, hungrier players, a clear style, and long-term planning.

Yeah, perhaps a shift towards a format like the new champions league would benefit all (essentially nations league). Fixtures next week of Bayern v Chelsea, Liverpool v Athletico. Albeit, it wouldn't be good for the stat-padding international strikers! This was our toughest match on paper, and maybe that's why we looked so much better than against the likes of Andorra. Some proper strength in depth, and maybe this is the time we look for the best 'team' rather than the best 'individuals' - the likes of Anderson, Madueke, Rodgers looked very good.

Building for what ? What are they building for on the back of a cashing in exercise and wage cap ? Because it certainly isn't for the top 6.

I thought it was alright, but get the frustration, stagnation year by year, poor comms, and watching committed players walk away hasn’t been great but it’s a new chapter now. Yes, the wage cap is crap, but it’s forcing the club to be smarter and not just splash cash on aging players who wanted new challenges. Honestly, some of them weren’t giving 100% either and it showed clearing them out isn’t just about saving money, it’s about building a squad that wants to be here. VI's support shows, and while it’s easy to be skeptical, he sees them every day. Gudjohnsen looks a proper talent, and there’s a foundation in this squad and they’re building something. It might take a season to click, but I’d rather back a project with potential than cling to the past and repeated failures of achieving the play offs. The club’s far from perfect, but there’s a shift happening. If its too much to bear, you could always support the bastards and get your England flags out...

The qualifiers are a waste of time and tell you very little, good or bad. Full of mismatches and 11 players camped in their own box. Scrap them, sort out qualification through the Nations League and play offs and give the actual season some time back.

Love the seesaw we all go through from being no hopers to it being there for the taking in 4 days. Think we'll need to see how the games evolve over the next 9 months to really say one way or the other.

Still wondering why Jordan Henderson got on the pitch, surely he's not gonna be part of the World Cup squad?

A really good performance from England, first time in quite some time i've watched a game and been impressed by what we did. Madueke was superb, a proper winger. Put in the type of performance we've been missing for years. Thought Anderson was superb also, with performances like that, he'll be keeping Wharton waiting a bit longer for a place in the team. Rogers played well, a great option to have going forward. Saka takes Gordon's place and you bring Bellingham back in and we're looking even better. We really need another striker. If Kane is injured/rested we're looking at Watkins, who's a good player but he's not top level and we'll struggle if we need to rely on him for any reasonable length of time. I think Tuchel has to make us greater than the sum of our parts in the main and then use the likes of Kane/Bellingham to grab that vital goal/moment of magic ad we could be onto something. It's 1 performance but it's been badly needed for sooo long.