Scottish Football

[roversfan99]

Hes totally out of touch with modern football, hes not managed for a while since a few really poor jobs he did most recently in his career.

At the end of day, Celtic might go on to do well but their team is built on resources well beyond anything else up there.

What is this nonsense about "knowing the club?" Its just generic cliches and rubbish.

Why dont all clubs just appoint former legends? Surely we should appoint David Dunn next as he knows the club, what it means to the supporters and whatever similar rubbish you want to throw at it? Rangers missed a trick not appointing Gazza.

[GHR]

I couldn't care less if a someone could point to Blackburn on a map, name the Spoons in town, recognise Mill Hill station, has an Uncle Jack tattoo or dreamed of being Damien Duff growing up. They can either do a job or they can't. How much could JDT have told you about the above before coming here? What about De Zerbi and Brighton? Thomas Frank and Brentford? I don't think Frank Lampard spent two weeks in the Premier Inn in Coventry immersing himself in 2 Tone and the site of Highfield Rod either.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Hes totally out of touch with modern football, hes not managed for a while since a few really poor jobs he did most recently in his career.

some time a person fits a club. I haven't said that he is long term appointment but at this stage I think its a sensible appointment 

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

At the end of day, Celtic might go on to do well but their team is built on resources well beyond anything else up there.

well its wasn't going well under Rodgers. 

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What is this nonsense about "knowing the club?" Its just generic cliches and rubbish.

No its not just generic cliches and rubbish but something actually knowing the club and being a former player actually can help. 

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why dont all clubs just appoint former legends? Surely we should appoint David Dunn next as he knows the club, what it means to the supporters and whatever similar rubbish you want to throw at it? Rangers missed a trick not appointing Gazza.

I haven't said every club but for someone like Celtic or Rangers I actually think it helps. 

rest of it is simple pointless childish comments about Dunny and Gazza

[roversfan99]

38 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

some time a person fits a club. I haven't said that he is long term appointment but at this stage I think its a sensible appointment 

well its wasn't going well under Rodgers. 

No its not just generic cliches and rubbish but something actually knowing the club and being a former player actually can help. 

I haven't said every club but for someone like Celtic or Rangers I actually think it helps. 

rest of it is simple pointless childish comments about Dunny and Gazza

Of course its generic cliches. O'Neill hasnt even been at the club for 20 years, he hasnt been a manager at all for 6 years. 

I dont see how the Dunn comparison is any different. If Ismael was to be sacked, he fits the exact same criteria that you are championing at other clubs.

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Of course its generic cliches. O'Neill hasnt even been at the club for 20 years, he hasnt been a manager at all for 6 years. 

I dont see how the Dunn comparison is any different. If Ismael was to be sacked, he fits the exact same criteria that you are championing at other clubs.

just ignored other points that its suits some clubs and not at others

[roversfan99]

Why does it "suit" some clubs to hire based purely on nostalgia?

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does it "suit" some clubs to hire based purely on nostalgia?

I have told you earlier, the problem again is you accepting my viewpoint 

[Mattyblue]

So which clubs does it suit then? And why?

[Upside Down]

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have told you earlier, the problem again is you accepting my viewpoint 

He's asking you to explain your viewpoint but you just keep repeating it. 

 

[wilsdenrover]

How can someone know a club when no club ever stays the same?

[roversfan99]

I cant refuse to accept a viewpoint that hasnt been explained. 

[chaddyrovers]

Cos I think a club like Rangers need a head coach who understand what Rangers or Celtic is and what it means to the fans, local area and just how big either club really is. Whether its a former player or fan of the club. Even if the head coach isn't a former player on their staff is a good wise move

Martin O'Neil being appointed at Celtic with other former Celtic players appointed on their staff seems a logical move given the mess around Rodgers leaving.

On Rangers, Rohl has appointed but he has said he will bring in a coach with Rangers background 

[Mattyblue]

So say you didn’t play for them or support them but you really understand how big they are, the local area and what they mean to the fans, can you have the job?

[sharpysharps86]

He knows the club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0l3Fum29xA

Edited 3 hours ago by sharpysharps86

[DE.]

When it comes to appointing a guy who "knows the club" (temporarily or otherwise) it's usually a desperation move when the fanbase is seriously hacked off and ready to explode. Putting a person in the dugout who people recognise is a way to soothe the crowd with nostalgia and keep their anger at bay for a while longer. If decent results follow, then that's just good fortune, but usually leads to that manager getting a longer contract than he deserves and the inevitable reversion to the norm soon follows. 

[sharpysharps86]

12 minutes ago, DE. said:

When it comes to appointing a guy who "knows the club" (temporarily or otherwise) it's usually a desperation move when the fanbase is seriously hacked off and ready to explode. Putting a person in the dugout who people recognise is a way to soothe the crowd with nostalgia and keep their anger at bay for a while longer. If decent results follow, then that's just good fortune, but usually leads to that manager getting a longer contract than he deserves and the inevitable reversion to the norm soon follows. 

Yep. There are plenty of occasions where putting someone who 'knows the club' hasn't worked. Hoddle at Spurs comes to mind. Henning Berg at another 🥲.

I get what Chaddy is saying about Rangers and Celtic in particular, but I'd debate that the only manager to win the league with Rangers in the last 10 years was someone who had no prior connection to the club. His main coaches were Gary McAllister and Michael Beale to my knowledge, neither of whom had any connections with Rangers either. Then you've also got the scenario that they brought in Van Bronckhorst who was a former player, and it failed. Yes they had Barry Ferguson for a bit last season, and yes he seemed to steady things a bit, but it's impossible to say whether it'd have been a success or not in the long term.

O'Neill in at Celtic temporary definitely feels like one of those cases of 'we didn't anticipate this happening so we've had to scramble around a bit'. Ultimately it generally does feel like putting a club legend or someone who 'knows the club' is always to paper over the cracks of deeper issues within the club.

[AndyB]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have told you earlier, the problem again is you accepting my viewpoint 

The problem is him accepting your viewpoint !

Do you actually read what you type?

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos I think a club like Rangers need a head coach who understand what Rangers or Celtic is and what it means to the fans, local area and just how big either club really is. Whether its a former player or fan of the club. Even if the head coach isn't a former player on their staff is a good wise move

Martin O'Neil being appointed at Celtic with other former Celtic players appointed on their staff seems a logical move given the mess around Rodgers leaving.

On Rangers, Rohl has appointed but he has said he will bring in a coach with Rangers background 

Im still unclear WHY you think those clubs would specifically benefit from someone who "understands" the club. As opposed to someone with a better recent CV. You keep repeating the same lines without saying why thats more important.

Every club is really important to the local area and to the fans who show up week in week out.

Surely their best bet is to choose the person best suited in terms of managerial ability and their CV.

O'Neill hasnt managed at Celtic for 20 years, at all for 6 years and recent jobs he had were unsuccessful in management, with suggestions that he hasnt moved with the times.

And Ferguson who you suggested for Rangers has mainly managed in the lower leagues aside from not a particularly productive interim spell at Rangers last season.

[Gav]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos I think a club like Rangers need a head coach who understand what Rangers or Celtic is and what it means to the fans, local area and just how big either club really is. Whether its a former player or fan of the club. Even if the head coach isn't a former player on their staff is a good wise move

Martin O'Neil being appointed at Celtic with other former Celtic players appointed on their staff seems a logical move given the mess around Rodgers leaving.

On Rangers, Rohl has appointed but he has said he will bring in a coach with Rangers background 

Spot on chaddy

Scottish football isn’t like any other league in the world, it’s about a minimum of 4 games a year, politics and religion. You don’t have to be a former player, manager or fan, but it certainly helps.

Edited 1 hour ago by Gav

[Mattyblue]

Does it? Or does success just correlate to who presently has the structural advantage up there. I.e Rangers had all the cash in the 90s, Celtic are far richer now on the back of a decade of Champions League.

As always, it’s about who has the best players (and manager) and that costs money, ‘knowing the club’ is irrelevant in modern football, even in Glasgow.

[roversfan99]

Of course its like any other league in the world.

And like any club, you would be better off choosing the best manager available. Not some bloke purely based on nostalgia or having been a good manager decades ago or a great player decades ago.

[Gav]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Of course its like any other league in the world.

And like any club, you would be better off choosing the best manager available. Not some bloke purely based on nostalgia or having been a good manager decades ago or a great player decades ago.

I assume you’re referring to Martin O’Neil, who holds ‘god like status’ in East End of Glasgow, built one of the best sides in Celtic fans living memory, you don’t understand that clearly. 

Will he get the gig full time? Maybe? It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if he did.

Brendon Rodger didn't do badly when he went back either, I'd expect Postecoglou to be in the frame too.

 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Gav

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Im still unclear WHY you think those clubs would specifically benefit from someone who "understands" the club. As opposed to someone with a better recent CV. You keep repeating the same lines without saying why thats more important.

a better recent CV counts for one, its about the job they do in that job and given the history and what Rangers and Celtic means to those fans and the local area, plus what Gav says aswell its just not a normal football club and area

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely their best bet is to choose the person best suited in terms of managerial ability and their CV.

that's your opinion but football clubs want a head coach that fits into the footballing plan so appointing a head coach who will play a certain way or bring through young players, but we had this debate several times and I'm not having again

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

O'Neill hasnt managed at Celtic for 20 years, at all for 6 years and recent jobs he had were unsuccessful in management, with suggestions that he hasnt moved with the times.

none of that really matters. This is interim appointment probably till end of the season. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

And Ferguson who you suggested for Rangers has mainly managed in the lower leagues aside from not a particularly productive interim spell at Rangers last season.

Rangers were in right mess and that wasn't going to be quick fix there but need a long term plan and building a squad there. 

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, Gav said:

I assume you’re referring to Martin O’Neil, who holds ‘god like status’ in East End of Glasgow, built one of the best sides in Celtic fans living memory, you don’t understand that clearly. 

Will he get the gig full time? Maybe? It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if he did.

Brendon Rodger didn't do badly when he went back either, I'd expect Postecoglou to be in the frame too.

 

Thanks for the patronising undertone, I do understand that he had a lot of success, but he left 20 years ago. His career since has included being out of football for the last 6 years, and his last few jobs were failures with suggestions that he has been left behind.

You mention Rodgers, they are incomparable. Rodgers went back pretty much straight after leaving Leicester. Although it ended sour there, he initially did a really good job and won the FA cup. He was still a relevant person in football management, he was still an appointment that would have been probably the stand out candidate regardless of having been there before, in fact I may be wrong but I feel like Celtic fans were unhappy with how he left initially.

Appointing O'Neill is purely based on nostalgia, he wouldnt be under consideration if he didnt have history which is 20 years ago. Ferguson wouldnt be considered for Rangers if he hadnt been a good player, not even a manager. 

I know if it was my club, I wouldnt want an appointment based on nostalgia. I would want the best manager available based on his recent managerial career.

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

a better recent CV counts for one, its about the job they do in that job and given the history and what Rangers and Celtic means to those fans and the local area, plus what Gav says aswell its just not a normal football club and area

that's your opinion but football clubs want a head coach that fits into the footballing plan so appointing a head coach who will play a certain way or bring through young players, but we had this debate several times and I'm not having again

none of that really matters. This is interim appointment probably till end of the season. 

Rangers were in right mess and that wasn't going to be quick fix there but need a long term plan and building a squad there. 

You just keep repeating the same cliches without explaining why you think that is more important than actually just appointing the best possible manager available.