Mowbray: Stay or go?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Managers don’t just get sacked because of the teams form. There’s a whole host of reasons why. Not meeting the season goal, falling out of favour with the directors, losing the fans etc are just some. Imo Tony hasn’t ticked any of those boxes yet. 

1) The common denominator with the vast majority of sackings is that the manager keeps losing. To say otherwise is folly. 

2) You don't know what the season goal was, nobody does. I've heard it was just to avoid relegation but Mowbray was very specific earlier in the season when he said he was trying to 'educate' the owners about a 'slow build'. That would suggest they have their sights set higher than 18th and losing every game after handing him a £10m transfer budget and new contracts for all his favourite players. 

3) His mate's on the board. Very cosy. Integrity. 

4) If you look at the poll at the top of this page you will see he's already lost the majority of fans on here. If you look at the LT comment section there are new people posting on there that want him out or have serious misgivings. If you read Rich Sharpe's (Rovers fan) verdict this morning he's clearly had enough of the garbage served up each week. Just because there are no 'Mowbray Out' banners doesn't mean anyone would really care if he was potted. The football is shite and the results are worse. Fortunately for Moggadon  apathy reigns because the next manager is likely to be just as shite. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

In actual fact, none of us have the football knowledge or first hand experience with those players to have made the right decision.

No, but Mowbray did and he got it wrong. That's the point and that's why 'hindsight' is such a cop out. It's his job to make the right decisions. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

There are a million different angles painted on these forums. Some come true, others do not. I’m not sure what your opinions were back in the summer but up until Christmas you pretty much had egg on your face and you were unlikely to be bouncing around reminding everyone of it. It’s easy to start crowing once your particular opinion comes true. In actual fact, none of us have the football knowledge or first hand experience with those players to have made the right decision.

So you guessed what might happen and it seems to have come true! Well done ??

No egg on my face. I said BB was an odd  signing then and nothing so far has changed my view on that debacle. I said repeatedly that largely concentrating transfer policy on bringing in young, English players was a fools errand. You must also bring in experienced heads.

I also said that many promoted sides have good starts and then run out of steam - perfect for January signings. So the season has turned out how I imagined - though this run is certainly worse than anything I envisaged.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

The highlighted sentence is what is really concerning me. We are stuck with the players you mention (and others) who Mowbray naively gave new, improved contracts to and Dack aside none of them have any saleable value and are unlikely to earn what we are paying them elsewhere. I think we need up to eight new players which will give us a bloated squad with potentially a huge wage bill. The knock on effect will be that no youngsters will get near the first team. I can see some of his old guard being paid off.

Overriding that though I simply don't trust Mowbray to pretty much build a new team. His record in the transfer market is poor, borne out by so many regular starters since he came were already here. And he has spent around £10m.

He has to go for me now. 

There’s a few with contracts up at the end of the season. I see the young lads slotting into those. The desired signings as quoted by Rich Sharpe are as follows:

Priority - CB’s (plural) and at least one striker.

TM refuses to rule out GK, FB and CM. I personally think these will be brought in based on if we can shift players in their positions.

Tony is openly talking about the plan. This needs to be executed or he’s history imo.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

No, but Mowbray did and he got it wrong. That's the point and that's why 'hindsight' is such a cop out. It's his job to make the right decisions. 

And if we finish between 10th - 15th and he makes the summer changes then he’s done his job, right? 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

And if we finish between 10th - 15th and he makes the summer changes then he’s done his job, right? 

No, he had a chance to improve the squad in January and made the wrong call. Because of that we are now in freefall. The damage is done.

It also depends on what his remit is for next season. Making changes is the easy part. Improving the team is what he struggles with. 

[LDRover]

So the rider on keeping TM appears to be that 'he deserves the summer to rebuild'.

Who is to say he will get decent funds? Who is to say that the powers that be point to the ludicrous contract extensions and £10million spent on ineffective players and pull the purse strings?

We all know the only thing predictable about our esteemed owners is their unpredictability. We know we are pretty low on their interest levels over there so I'd be hugely surprised that they are intending a huge spending spree (which is desperately needed).

My view is that TM knows there's not much finance available and is just treading water pulling the cash in while he can and hoping to God for a big offer for Dack to give him some wriggle room.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Nope. I said BB was a ridiculous signing then and nothing so far has changed my view on that debacle. I said repeatedly that largely concentrating transfer policy on bringing in young, English players was a fools errand. You must also bring in experienced heads.

I also said that many promoted sides have good starts and then run out of steam - perfect for January signings. So the season has turned out how I imagined - though this run is certainly worse than anything I envisaged.

And if you can see it then why couldn’t he, right? ?

Mate, this isn’t Fifa. These are real people with real problems. We don’t know what finances were actually available. We don’t know if the owners rhetoric is to buy young English players, develop them and sell them for a profit. We don’t know anything really other than what we see in football matches and what we read in the media.

It’s like someone looking at your life through Facebook and deciding what you should and should not do. It’s not real.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, LDRover said:

So the rider on keeping TM appears to be that 'he deserves the summer to rebuild'.

Who is to say he will get decent funds? Who is to say that the powers that be point to the ludicrous contract extensions and £10million spent on ineffective players and pull the purse strings?

We all know the only thing predictable about our esteemed owners is their unpredictability. We know we are pretty low on their interest levels over there so I'd be hugely surprised that they are intending a huge spending spree (which is desperately needed).

My view is that TM knows there's not much finance available and is just treading water pulling the cash in while he can and hoping to God for a big offer for Dack to give him some wriggle room.

I wish I had the money to plough £100m into something I wasn’t interested in! ??

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

No, he had a chance to improve the squad in January and made the wrong call. Because of that we are now in freefall. The damage is done.

It also depends on what his remit is for next season. Making changes is the easy part. Improving the team is what he struggles with. 

That’s fair enough. I understand your opinion on that. I just don’t agree. ??

[Mattyblue]

Yeah why couldn’t he.

It obviously is the owners view that we should bring in young, English players for future profits. But he’s signed up to it.

Im not sure why me (and plenty of others) getting things right and Mowbray getting it wrong has anything to do with ‘Fifa’, the only ‘ultimate team’ is in TM’s head.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

There are a million different angles painted on these forums. Some come true, others do not. I’m not sure what your opinions were back in the summer but up until Christmas you pretty much had egg on your face and you were unlikely to be bouncing around reminding everyone of it. It’s easy to start crowing once your particular opinion comes true. In actual fact, none of us have the football knowledge or first hand experience with those players to have made the right decision.

So you guessed what might happen and it seems to have come true! Well done ??

That’s a really poor post.

Not only will you not admit people were right to be concerned but you now sarcastically congratulate them for being good guessers.

Shame.

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

And if you can see it then why couldn’t he, right? ?

Mate, this isn’t Fifa. These are real people with real problems. We don’t know what finances were actually available. We don’t know if the owners rhetoric is to buy young English players, develop them and sell them for a profit. We don’t know anything really other than what we see in football matches and what we read in the media.

It’s like someone looking at your life through Facebook and deciding what you should and should not do. It’s not real.

Since when has football ever been like the real world? Managers are sacked every other month. It’s the nature of the industry. Anyone who wants to be a football manager cannot expect longevity, that’s why they get paid a lot of money to compensate for that uncertainty.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Mate, this isn’t Fifa. These are real people with real problems. We don’t know what finances were actually available. We don’t know if the owners rhetoric is to buy young English players, develop them and sell them for a profit. We don’t know anything really other than what we see in football matches and what we read in the media.

We know Mowbray said BB will be a 'superstar', we know he paid in the region of £6-7m for him, we know BB hasn't scored a goal and looks a fairly average footballer. 

I know all that without having played FIFA??

[Scotland1]

Get rid! All this nice honest man stuff is pony.

Guy got Waggott on board to make his own position stronger. He’s another taking the owners for a complete ride.

4 from 36 is it or 39? 

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, LDRover said:

 

My view is that TM knows there's not much finance available and is just treading water pulling the cash in while he can and hoping to God for a big offer for Dack to give him some wriggle room.

I'll throw another conspiracy theory into the mix.

Mowbray has heard via Pasha that his budget for the summer is likely to be small. Numerous reasons why this might be the case - Venkys have lost interest after the success of last season - Venkys feel as though their fingers were burned last summer - Venkys have changed course again - we saw it with Bowyer and Lambert that they can quickly pull up the drawbridge on funding and leave the manager in situ struggling. 

As things stand the only way he'll win them over or get decent funds to strengthen is by selling to raise cash - see Lambert with Rhodes

Anyone can see the only realistic prospect we have at this moment in time to do that is by selling Dack - perhaps not at the values suggested in January but probably still £8-10 million given his record.

So begins a process of phasing Dack out and unsettling him to prepare for the sale - hence we've got the shenanigans seen yesterday. It won't be long before people on here and Twitter are encouraging the club to sell Dack as we don't need that sort of behaviour here and we can't tolerate it etc. 

But rather than it being a Dack issue perhaps it is a Rovers issue - that they're trying to sell him and force him out as it is the only way cash will be raised.

Just a thought. It wouldn't surprise me. Remember the 'contract talks' that were supposedly taking place with him in January that have never come to anything? We've seen stuff like this before - ultimately the aim is to sell the player for big money whilst shielding Venkys and Rovers from criticism by turning the spotlight onto the player.

 

[LDRover]

Just now, JHRover said:

I'll throw another conspiracy theory into the mix.

Mowbray has heard via Pasha that his budget for the summer is likely to be small. Numerous reasons why this might be the case - Venkys have lost interest after the success of last season - Venkys feel as though their fingers were burned last summer - Venkys have changed course again - we saw it with Bowyer and Lambert that they can quickly pull up the drawbridge on funding and leave the manager in situ struggling. 

As things stand the only way he'll win them over or get decent funds to strengthen is by selling to raise cash - see Lambert with Rhodes

Anyone can see the only realistic prospect we have at this moment in time to do that is by selling Dack - perhaps not at the values suggested in January but probably still £8-10 million given his record.

So begins a process of phasing Dack out and unsettling him to prepare for the sale - hence we've got the shenanigans seen yesterday. It won't be long before people on here and Twitter are encouraging the club to sell Dack as we don't need that sort of behaviour here and we can't tolerate it etc. 

But rather than it being a Dack issue perhaps it is a Rovers issue - that they're trying to sell him and force him out as it is the only way cash will be raised.

Just a thought. It wouldn't surprise me. Remember the 'contract talks' that were supposedly taking place with him in January that have never come to anything? We've seen stuff like this before - ultimately the aim is to sell the player for big money whilst shielding Venkys and Rovers from criticism by turning the spotlight onto the player.

 

A very credible argument and one I agree with.

[Paul Mani]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

That’s a really poor post.

Not only will you not admit people were right to be concerned but you now sarcastically congratulate them for being good guessers.

Shame.

Here we go...

There’s nothing poor about my post. The guy took a best guess at what might happen and it came true. It’s just like studying the form for a horse race and backing the winner and then giving the win anymore credibility than it being a bloody good guess.

Just now, Stuart said:

Since when has football ever been like the real world? Managers are sacked every other month. It’s the nature of the industry. Anyone who wants to be a football manager cannot expect longevity, that’s why they get paid a lot of money to compensate for that uncertainty.

True. Great point. They do get sacked all the time. Sometimes we understand it, lots of times it’s incomprehensible...and that is because there is soooo much going on behind closed doors which effect the situation. Extra marital affairs, drugs, financial strategies, political aims. It’s so complex.

 

4 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

We know Mowbray said BB will be a 'superstar', we know he paid in the region of £6-7m for him, we know BB hasn't scored a goal and looks a fairly average footballer. 

I know all that without having played FIFA??

We don’t know anything about the context of that deal. BB is very highly rated by lots of people I know. I would have to agree that my opinion of him is closer to yours at the moment. But what I am sure of is that if BB does fulfill the potential that professional coaches see in him, we won’t see your predictions of his failure for dust! ?

[Mattyblue]

I was guessing that just buying young players would be problematic 

I was just guessing that most promoted League 1 teams drop off in the second half of the season.

I was just guessing that letting go of one of our only recognised centre halves in the middle of an injury crisis would turn out badly.

Modern day Nostradamus me.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, JHRover said:

I'll throw another conspiracy theory into the mix.

Mowbray has heard via Pasha that his budget for the summer is likely to be small. Numerous reasons why this might be the case - Venkys have lost interest after the success of last season - Venkys feel as though their fingers were burned last summer - Venkys have changed course again - we saw it with Bowyer and Lambert that they can quickly pull up the drawbridge on funding and leave the manager in situ struggling. 

As things stand the only way he'll win them over or get decent funds to strengthen is by selling to raise cash - see Lambert with Rhodes

Anyone can see the only realistic prospect we have at this moment in time to do that is by selling Dack - perhaps not at the values suggested in January but probably still £8-10 million given his record.

So begins a process of phasing Dack out and unsettling him to prepare for the sale - hence we've got the shenanigans seen yesterday. It won't be long before people on here and Twitter are encouraging the club to sell Dack as we don't need that sort of behaviour here and we can't tolerate it etc. 

But rather than it being a Dack issue perhaps it is a Rovers issue - that they're trying to sell him and force him out as it is the only way cash will be raised.

Just a thought. It wouldn't surprise me. Remember the 'contract talks' that were supposedly taking place with him in January that have never come to anything? We've seen stuff like this before - ultimately the aim is to sell the player for big money whilst shielding Venkys and Rovers from criticism by turning the spotlight onto the player.

 

Funny post.

Fyi I do beleive that they will be looking to get him out and recover some money this summer. There has to be some return for the owners....but maybe the real reason is that they’ve had enough of the issues that surround him and want to cash out before he does something that kills his value stone dead...just a thought ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

BB is very highly rated by lots of people I know.

? You should have said! I just thought he was a massive waste of money but I've seen the light now

BTW, are they the same 'lots of people' who think Mowbray and Venus are 'very good coaches'? 

Your football contacts book must be huge. How long have you been in the game? 

[JHRover]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Funny post.

Fyi I do beleive that they will be looking to get him out and recover some money this summer. There has to be some return for the owners....but maybe the real reason is that they’ve had enough of the issues that surround him and want to cash out before he does something that kills his value stone dead...just a thought ?

I suppose it comes down to whether you merely want to accept the narrative provided by the club and don't have any doubts about the owners and regime they've installed at the club.

Given what I've seen and heard over the last few years I'm not ruling anything out.

[Stuart]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

I was guessing that just buying young players would be problematic 

I was just guessing that most promoted League 1 teams drop off in the second half of the season.

I was just guessing that letting go of one of our only recognised centre halves in the middle of an injury crisis would turn out badly.

Modern day Nostradamus me.

Maybe we need a manager who is a good guesser because Mowbray isn’t!

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Funny post.

Fyi I do beleive that they will be looking to get him out and recover some money this summer. There has to be some return for the owners....but maybe the real reason is that they’ve had enough of the issues that surround him and want to cash out before he does something that kills his value stone dead...just a thought ?

I totally agree.  Dack is too high maintenance - which is fine if you are producing on the pitch but he's been poor for the past few months and seems totally distracted from his day job.  Sadly, I suspect any plans to use money from his sale to rebuild are well and truly shot to pieces.  If we got £5 million for him, on his present form, we'd be doing well.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

I was guessing that just buying young players would be problematic 

I was just guessing that most promoted League 1 teams drop off in the second half of the season.

I was just guessing that letting go of one of our only recognised centre halves in the middle of an injury crisis would turn out badly.

Modern day Nostradamus me.

Correct. You were guessing mate. 

 

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

? You should have said! I just thought he was a massive waste of money but I've seen the light now

BTW, are they the same 'lots of people' who think Mowbray and Venus are 'very good coaches'? 

Your football contacts book must be huge. How long have you been in the game? 

Not in the game pal. But I’ll take the opinions of current league managers and coaches as well as people who have worked directly with TM in recent years over yours. For now ?