FLB not nit picking but tend to disagree on this point to the extent only a small number of clubs are healthy and the rest are living on scraps or in deep trouble as the amount going into administration would suggest. Quite true Mr Kayos- however, it really has ALWAYS been like that. Look up any year since the football league began and I guarantee you will find clubs in that kind of financial situation. Go back fifty years and the likes of Accrington Stanley, Gateshead, Bradford Park Avenue, Southport, new Brighton, Barrow, Workington, Aldershot etc etc were all league clubs. They all went the way of either obscurity or extinction. Small clubs have always struggled. Mainly because they are, well...so small. The Leeds United situation is nothing new, their predecessors Leeds City got in trouble and were booted out the league. Yet football carried on, it always does... That England sustains far more clubs than any other country and has far more fans watching them than any other does not suggest a national game in crisis. Look - I don't particularly like the extortionate amounts charged to watch live football, or for that matter televised football. I don't like players getting eighty grand a week. I don't think...wow! Sunday lunchtime, what a great time to go the football. The most worrying modern trend in football is the reluctance to buy lower division players but instead go after cheap foreign signings. That could be worrying for the long-term future of lower division clubs. But..you know...what can you do? It's the way it is now. Money talks in football. Then again...to a greater or lesser extent, it always has. Agree whole heartedly FLB especially re the Premiership culture of not looking in the lower leagues for other 'Stead's (to pick as an example) and of thinking to have to pay 'big money' to buy quality. What also used to be the situation was that players couldn't just walk out of a club either and sign for another club and expect to pick up the readies as easily as they can nowadays. Small clubs will always struggle as you so rightly state but they have survived- and normally they can keep their head above water but the way football is going nowadays the question has to be for how long? I feel alot more will possibly be in the' begging' brigade before we know it - which at the end of the day could end up with our 'over full' leagues being cut down. My personal gripe is that more money should filter its way down to the lower leagues from the premiership matches if this is the way it should be. All players aspire to play in the top leagues which is rightly so and its by selling their 'young stars that alot of the so called smaller clubs primarily survive on or are hoping that one day they will hit the jackpot with a sale as they know they cannot keep these players- some of these players would not be able to realise their dream without these smaller clubs. For the TV World they are not for the majority an attractive draw, and maybe the directive being looked at by UEFA re the limitations of foreigners may be a good thing by directing funds to the 'smaller clubs'. Yes money does talk in football - but does it speak the right language?

FLB not nit picking but tend to disagree on this point to the extent only a small number of clubs are healthy and the rest are living on scraps or in deep trouble as the amount going into administration would suggest. What I also think is that by moving the ko times it is creating more competition for the contents of peoples' wallets especially those with families etc. So all in all tend to sway to Paul's comments and disagree its a good thing, but as what has already been mentioned - you can't just blame SKY.

Agree 14May to what you say, but to me it was just the England fans booing the Croatians for booing our anthem that just overran to their anthem. Back to another thing that also appears to have gone unreported - and that of the England fans being 'run/chased' off a campsite (in Estoril I think) by the Croats. Speaking to some Bournemouth fans in Lisbon and they said they probably outnumbered the English about 4-1 - no surprise there then. As we are all well aware for those that have been there - there is one rule for reporting on the English and another for the rest.

take it the post from Euro 2004 coming as well!!

Sunday Mirror was reporting that he has forsaken C/L Football with Celtic and was signing for his old manager at Blackburn for 1.5m So believe what you will

Did I miss something here must have gone deaf at the match because I certainly didn't here any booing from England fans. Unlike the Croatian 'racist' chants (and not just inside the ground) that seem to have gone unmentioned.

Get ready for 2 lots of kick offs 30th Oct - Liverpool 5-15pm ko

Heh!! There's only one Capt around here

Nice one Bryan. Gary Lineker, incidentally, seems to agree with Jim. In an interview today with one of those beastly red-top rags, the former England striker has launched an attack on the tactics employed by Eriksson. Some fairly strong words of criticism from the normally mild-mannered Lineker... Link Below: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390...4292180,00.html And deserves every ounce of it - or does he?? I said before the tournament started I was not happy with Professor Yaffel in charge -but is it his fault - or the bungling pricks at the FA who appointed him? It was quite obvious before the tournament started what problems we have and that PY did not have a clue how to rectify it, and neither do the FA who should have instantly sacked him or asked him (quitely) to stand down soon after the Portugal game. With him in charge we can forget about Germany.

Forgive me if I am wrong but will the clubs not have had to agree to this and get a cut - then if so its their own faults for selling out to TV.

Correct Paul and well put. Yet again it takes a wiseman to re-iterate what is said every year but the Club does not seem to take notice. I have said time and time again especially about JW, that I think the club are way out of touch with with what the fans think and feel I don't know what goes on it the Fans forum meetings but nothing of any significance appears to come out of them - or at least is not made known and it all appears to be kept very secret. Rovers fans are not bothered about whether we have the cheapest Season Tickets or what is going on at other clubs - its what happens on the pitch. Add to that the poor atmosphere at games and people just don't feel the enjoyment value is there - other things attract and negative feelings eminating from the club do not help. Even if the season tickets had been lowered by £100, I doubt this would have attracted anymore season ticket holders - possibly made most existing ones to continue - but as to whether it would make an impact on sales of new ones is debatable.

It was on the Radio this morning saying that the Portuguese communities in England suffered heavy abuse and physical violence. It said that throughout the whole country around seventeen Portuguese restaurants were burnt down. Which is an absolute disgrace. The way we where treated over in Portugal was nothing short of brilliant and 'over politeness' and whilst being wary the Potugese could not do enough to help us. Joining in with their celebrations on Sunday after their defeat of Spain was a sight to behold. Portugal was invaded by thousands upon thousands of Football fans most of them English, of which, all the locals wanted to do was ensure that everybody had a great time and enjoyed their stay and the tournament. And how do the idiots over here treat the Portugese Ex pats - with disrespect and violence. An embarrassment and and complete disregard to the good people of our once fine country.

Is it just me, or was the foul not given for Campbell's first challenge and header and not for Terry's interventions. I haven't seen anything to contradict this nor have I seen an interview from the Ref to say what he gave it for.

We lost simply because Portugal where a better side after the first 20mins. For a team that played so negatively I am surprised we got as far as extra time (Silver Goal???????? pah!!!!) Looking at it overall, we have not exactly played well all through the tournament - exception being the France game until the last 5mins and the Croatia game once Rooney had imposed himself, and then still we looked average until Lampards goal. Good luck to Portugal, and after the scenes I saw out there on Sunday and the good crack I hope they now go on to win it. We where simply not good enough with bad tactics and players to boot.

Mmmmm you maybe closer to knowing than you know it just wasn't reported SG194 .... Got back from Portugal on Wednesday night and after an absolute brilliant day and Tuesday morning brought to light this terrible news. All I can say is that this was not an isolated incident, and other 'incidents' with immigrants had happened prior to this tragedy We had decided to bypass going back to Rossio square after the match, due to the nightmare of getting away from the ground and the delays on the metro, and with us not staying in Lisbon decided to head back to the main bus station and have a drink there in order to catch the last bus to Setubal. My mate was hassled (amongst many others) on Monday afternoon and we think this may be the same guy, who co-incidently 'wanted a fight' when money was refused to be handed over. We were going back into Lisbon anyway on Tueday so went to the square to pay our respects and lay some flowers. Most reports, appear to have the facts - but having spoke to his friends and fellow Wolves fans - the police did little in the way to move the beggars on (they had already chased this guy off once!!) and did not help them with 'first aid' after Mr Smith had been stabbed. What annoyed us and may others was the Female English Reporter (don't know what TV Channel though) who was promptly told to do one in no friendly terms in her attempt to make a 'tv circus' out of what had happened. Anyway, we duly signed the Wolves fans flag as a mark of respect and passed on our sympathy to his family and friends. Upmost respect must go out to the the two Portugese blokes who where there all day sorting the flowers and standing guard and organising the flags, scarves and flowers, pints of beer etc RIP Stephen Smith our hearts go out to your family and friends.

P...lease.........!! Tell me you are joking

Although the win was a healthy one and much needed to boost morale, I feel people are getting a bit jumped up about Englands chances. Croatia showed last night they can compete with France so why can't they compete with us?? Most on here seem to be forgetting than up until the Swiss had the man sent off they where much the better side - possibly, as yet again Professor Yaffle messed about with the side |(is he related to Souness by any chance??). If we had played anybody considered better than the Swiss we may have been fortunate to get away with a draw last night. Rooney is changing my opinion of him of being a media made player (not his fault), and although he has been our best player IMO he still has some way to go and given the chance he will probably prove himself to be top drawer. As for the others whether it was a comedown from the France match, I don't know, but they had better improve for Monday when I get there. Roll On Monday - Come on England the Country expects

Good points RB and I don't think anybody is disputing this. Its just the way the rovers have gone about it in their lacksadaisical and what would appear typical disorganised way in peoples eyes. Hard bunch to please us Rovers fans

Doh!! isn't that what people have been discussing on here for over a week. How can they sell them when people haven't received their renewal packs, and for the majority they can't get down to the ground during the week. Expecting to sell - As I have said numerous times on different threads, they had better prepare themselves becuase we will be lucky to sell 10k - regardless of price freezes. Still shows to me how out of touch the club is from the Rovers fans. I was only reporting back to everyone from what I was told yesterday down at the ticket office after I had transferred my seats. Don`t shoot the messenger. The season ticket renewals are poor in the way how they still haven`t been delivered to some fans who had season tickets last season. My mate hasn`t got his yet so he downloaded a application form of the internet and filled it in. Sorry Roversismylife Just read my reply again - didn't mean it as a go at you - but at the club saying what do they expect when on the look of it quite a large majority are only just receiving their renewal packs. Whether many will be returned will be very interesting.

Doh!! isn't that what people have been discussing on here for over a week. How can they sell them when people haven't received their renewal packs, and for the majority they can't get down to the ground during the week. Expecting to sell - As I have said numerous times on different threads, they had better prepare themselves becuase we will be lucky to sell 10k - regardless of price freezes. Still shows to me how out of touch the club is from the Rovers fans.

Agreed TND 2nd in the group at most. An overrated team hyped up by a media ready to shoot them down as soon as the final whistle goes against France. A team going into the tournament totally disorganised without any balance, a manager who doesn't know what team or formation to pick and with players that shouldn't even be there. And a country 'deluded' by the upturn of the sale of little flags purchased by the majority who have never taken any interest in football whatsoever, and feel its "just trendy" to fly flags from their cars. Oh and nearly forgot some players who think they are better than they actually are, especially Gary Neville who thinks we can win in with Souenss's mate 'lady luck' for christ sake. Get real people we haven't got a cat in hells chance of winning it. But hey that's what football is about - expect the unexpected.

Bryan On the pitch he most certainly is - played many a match with TDI (aka Pink Panther) Off one on the nicest guys you will ever meet.

One of mine main worries this as well Scotty, which is why I stated it depends on what PD has actually been bought for. Add to this what Jordan has commented about re the penalties - something I didn't comprehend - and the goals scored does not look so appealing. However, having seen PD play he is the type of player I like - a bit of how I would describe the old traditional late 70's/early 80's type of player - he wants to win every game and 100% effort is given and providing we can get a bit more creativity from our midfield he might surprise a few as I feel he has a knack for being in the right place at the right time for a forward - a bit like Stead.

Same question that I asked above MB Spoke to the club about this and they say if you where on it last season then another - yes another application form will be sent out - presuming if you weren't then they will just take your details and send an application form - what was wrong with just putting this on the same form in the renewal pack for christ sake!!

(So there's no escape Kayos) As Paul said they're an improvement on last year as they already have all the details on the form. An idiot could fill it in in a matter of minutes, as I prove to myself. Never was Bobf mi old mucka Yep mine FINALLY arrived and duly completed and in the post. As mentioned before though - the time limit £50 travel voucher is of non use due to it having to be booked by the end of December which I am unlikely to do - why isn't an option given for something else - no benefit for the 'cheaper hot dog and drink' as I don't eat meat (very incosiderate Rovers what about the veggie alternative or a reduction on the pints? ) and don't buy programmes anymore because they are a absolute rip off and these will probably increase so all in all the saving is not really of any benefit and why do we have to ring up for the Cup game ticket scheme? Moans - maybe but I always renew anyway regardless of the package Have to agree though - much better and compact Season Ticket pack the even an idiot ('eg to quote BobF himself ) can complete. In answer to the 'What is the answer' - My personal outlook on this is that Football is becoming to expensive and less enjoyable nowadays and the season ticket is becoming a bit defunct in it purpose - people don't want to pay the exorbitant costs - especially in wages to players that they consider not to be able to lace their grandads boots.