It's certainly not anywhere near top 6 anyway, even under a proper manager

We finished 15th last season and won 2 out of 17 near the end.

Very much so. Hard to know with this one though, van Djik was a long time ago and Celtic haven't exactly set the world alight with recruitment the last few years. As many misses as hits. At least it seems they are going to appoint someone though, finally

Any word on a new head of recruitment? Surely should be wrapped up by now. I wonder what's going on. Maybe they won't get anyone

If Butterworth is good enough and stays injury free it doesn't matter what he missed. Some players play non league for years before getting to the top level. The most important thing is he stays injury free from here on in and gets a run at it. It's his fragility that's the worry, not his ability ,if he has it that is. I have seen bits of him and he looks like an exciting player. Reminds me of Rooney for some reason. Looks fearless. Very small sample size though

It's pretty telling that Armstrong won't sign a new deal. He has played his best football and delivered the most goals under Mowbray, first in League 1 and now the Championship. Yet, he doesn't see this as the place to stay. I wonder what his main motivation is, money or success?

That's not how it works

Yes, because you are in cloud cuckoo land. I'll answer for you. No, we don't know what formation he will play next season. His style is pointless possession. We saw that last season and that's why we are worried. Do you think having Pep as manager helps man city? Because ignoring Mowbray would suggest the manager a club has doesn't matter ,in your view.

I would say it's those who are fake positive who are the depressive ones, as they can't stomach facing up to reality

I'd say they are shocked he is still the manager

He's raw, but he has scored goals at Premier League level and that's more than Armstrong ever did. Actually he was the same age as Obafemi when he left Newcastle on loan and with one league 1 season apart, the last 2 have been his most proficient at championship level. I agree though, at the moment like for like ,it's a concern. I wouldn't look too much into his injuries at this stage. I have seen him a few times. He's very fast and I would say stronger than Armstrong. Obviously putting the ball in the onion bag is the most important thing and it's unlikely he would score 28 goals next season, but as we saw, one player doing that guarantees no success for the team. Anyway, I can't see us signing Obafemi, for numerous reasons. I would certainly take him over some of the names linked, but it's unlikely Southampton will let him go in any deal I would imagine.

Inevitability of our circumstances is a good description. I have always tried to be positive as a supporter, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there isn't any point saying we have a prize winning , pedigree stallion. If we are lauding our young players, we have to say it's not the ideal environment for them. So it could well end up being a huge missed opportunity.

Obafemi on loan, at best. I would be SHOCKED if they let him leave on a permanent as part of any deal. Why would they? Nobody is going to be bidding 25 million, so why would they offer 15 plus a player who I believe they value at between 8 and 10 I caveat this with the fact they wanted 5 million for Gallagher and Obafemi is rated far more highly there and has scored goals in the Premier League. Wishful thinking even getting him on loan I feel. Would be great though! He has serious pace.

I wouldn't say I'm "moaning" , just dealing with reality. You're saying we are going to challenge for the play offs and that the squad we have now is good, but we need 4-5 signings , of which we have zero at the moment. You seem to have put the fact we have Mowbray as manager in a compartment and have decided to ignore that elephant in the room and focus on being positive, but don't be surprised when people say "wait a minute chaddy, that's all well and good, but we still have an average, at best manager , who won 2 games in 17 last season and now appears to have lost the dressing room" and that's ignoring the other elephant,which is venkys. It doesn't bode well.

I would be surprised if we got Obafemi on a permanent plus 15 million, it would be as good a deal as we could get though.

Ok, that's great you trust them. I believe they are good young players. Doesn't change who the manager is though, does it? You think this young team will succeed in spite of him? Has that ever happened in football before? Give me an example of when it has. Depends on who the 4-5 are ,surely? Bit early to be saying we are happy with them yet, no? Well you just posted that we missed out on 3 players because of the "embargo" so I have little doubt you would have been saying they were good signings if we got them, right? So the cub have admitted we have missed out on 3, or maybe they are lying to save face in a weird way. Difficult to know. Either way most other clubs are doing business insofar as what they feel they need. We aren't.

Ultimately, excuses wont put points on the board.

How are you happy with what we have? I'm sure some of the players signed by clubs already will do well. Many clubs are miles ahead of us when it comes to recruitment networks and results. Freeman is too slow I think. Although he is a decent player. We have gotten rid of some Deadwood, but currently we have very little wood. Yet again we are an injury or 2 away from catastrophe. At best we are banking on Mowbray turning a group of youngsters into a competitive outfit at this level. I'm not confident of that happening. I would imagine he will confuse them and play some out of position.

It certainly doesn't look like it will be anything else. Unless you're the most Rosey of rose tinted spectacle wearer. I wonder would Mr "never a burden" quit if he isn't somewhat backed on transfers

Under Mowbray, this is the problem, however another manager could cash in on Armstrong, invest the money where needed and we could finish higher up the table. So selling him isn't really the problem, it goes back to the elephant in the room, Mowbray

When is this on?

Whatabouttery post of the year goes to.... How do I know it's not true? Cos he signed for Wigan.

You could give a general idea what the source is and it would make zero difference. Well it's better to be dead, than discussing stuff that's untrue

Or you just made up the rumour that we were interested in the first place? You never said where you heard the info when asked. Things are bad, but no player is picking Wigan over us.

Ah, no.