Hasta

Not really. Ismael still had players from West Brom’s premier league campaign, they still,had parachute moneys and spent £8million on a striker. Therefore expectations were quite rightly high. Theyy were 2nd favourites to win the league that season. They had been in the top 3 most of the season until December and then started playing poorly and had dropped to 6th. So it wasn’t really as ‘shit’ a decision as you say. They haven’t done any better since because for the last couple of years they’ve spent little and almost gone bust. If all you are basing the decision to sack him as being ‘shit’ on is purely because they were 6th at the time, then the Kean point stands.

I presume therefore that you think Steve Kean was the best manager Rovers had in the championship. Sacked when 4th in the league.

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If the comment is "we have been inconsistent and got good and bad results in patches all season, not just under Ismael" then I agree. Nobody is saying we would have won those games under another manager. I've said that Ismael will be better judged at the end of the season. All I am saying is these 3 defeats are not a "continuation of our recent form".

We ended up in the Moorings. Police came in at about 10.20pm and said they didn’t have to close Sunday hours as they didn’t want everyone spilling onto the streets at the same time.

FFS. But that doesn’t make Ismael’s 4 games “a continuation of our recent form.”. These 4 games aren’t because “the rot had already set in” Just like when Eustace didn’t get a win in 4 games earlier this season (as identified in Booth’s post) that also wasn’t a continuation of “our recent form“ or “rot”.

I cant really argue against much of what you say there Chaddy. I agree with most of it. It's purely when people say something along the lines of "the rot had already set in" or "all he's done is continue the bad form we were already in" that is bugging me. It's not true. We had just played very well and won recent games. I'm not sure how that is being disputed.

OK. Lets remember they were probably tougher games as well. I'll take out the cup win at Boro. With Ismael 4 games - 1 point - 0.25 points per game Before Ismail 5 games - 9 points - 1.8 points per game 10 games - 12 points - 1.2 points per game 14 games - 14 points 1.0 points per game 15 games - 17 points - 1.13 points per game Suits my point. And before anyone says, yes we will look at it again at the end of the season which will be a longer period of time and a fairer barometer to judge his impact. But the team's form under Ismael's is currently worse than before he came. Fact.

I watched it round at my Gran's (only she had Sky) and then shot off to the pub afterwards. Redknapp scored, my brain quickly processed that it was now far more important what was happening at Upton Park so I switched channel across to the West Ham / Man U game. The game had just finished but it took me a few seconds to actually work out it was over, and by the time I realised I switched it back and the Rovers players were celebrating with the game still being played.

Individual game performances, Ismael's tactics, injuries etc are all subject to opinion. I believe Derby got 2-0 up and then, typically for Eustace, sat back and held what they had. You think we turned the tide of the game due to the tactical changes of Ismael. We don't really know. I can accept people have differing views on this. The issue I'm taking argument that keeps appearing which is a variation of "we were already in bad form when Ismael took over". We had won 3 from 5. And they weren't lucky or undeserved wins. Preston - Great win and much deserved. Plymouth - Very good win and much deserved. Control the game from the start to finish West Brom - Fantastic win and much deserved. Proper team performance who were united and stuck together. The argument "we were already in bad form when Ismael took over" doesn't needs stats to suit it. It's clearly not true. True we weren't winning 5 on the bounce which was always unsustainable, but we also weren't losing 3 on the bounce to relegation candidates when he walked in the door.

Against Norwich I thought we did OK. We struggled early in the second half but Tonstadt's introduction changed the flow of the game until Dennis got sent off. However we didn't lose and the performance wasn't particularly bad. Then we play Derby, Pears flaps, we go 2-0 down and within 20 minutes he has decided that this squad would be better suited to going 3 at the back. 3 wins from the last 5 Chaddy. As Rafa Benitez once said , "Facts"

Eh? "Looking at the starting line up of the win against Plymouth, every one of them was available for the defeat at Derby, plus he had Tronstadt and Ohashi back." That is gospel. There's no other context to it. Regardless, the goalposts on this discussion are moving a bit. I accept that it is still early in his reign and he doesn't have a full strength squad. All I'm pointing out is that when people keep saying "our form had already gone before he arrived", it hadn't. People will try and write that as gospel going forward and it's clearly not true. 3 from 5.

I agree with you somewhat regards to injuries and squad depth and all that, but this statement simply isn’t true. In the last 5 games before him we played Preston, played well and beat them, albeit we tried to throw it away in the last 5 minutes. We were very good in winning at West Brom and we were far better than Plymouth. Batth missed the Plymouth game and half the West Brom game. However we still looked organised and had desire in those games. That is obviously lacking at the moment. He’s changed too much too quickly. Brushing it off as “well we were this bad before he come in” simply isn’t true.

10 wins from 20 4 from 12 3 from 5 And then 0 from 4 Results had taken a downturn once Travis and Tronstadt weren’t available together. They improved a bit before Ismael came in. Now we’ve not won in four and have lost to 3 of the bottom 5. Also facts.

Come on now. Looking at the starting line up of the win against Plymouth, every one of them was available for the defeat at Derby, plus he had Tronstadt and Ohashi back. Against Cardiff yesterday only Brittain was missing, again with Tronstadt and Ohashi available.

I keep saying it because it is undisputedly true. People keep quoting the stats from the last 14 or 16 games as though it shows the current form is to be expected, ignoring there had been an upturn in fortunes. If I went back to the match threads against Preston, West Brom and Plymouth I guarantee people who are saying how bad our form has been were also saying how well we played in those games. Yes he has injuries. Probably a bit worse than Lowe and Eustace had although he now has Tronstadt and Ohashi back. But we’ve just lost to 3 poor relegation-threatened teams which I don’t believe Lowe or Eustace would have done. I put the blame for that squarely at the tactical switch in formation by VI. The fact is, we weren’t a team in free fall that couldn’t get a win anywhere. We had won 3 from 5.

3 wins from 5

For the nth time today, 3 wins in 5 before he took over. Lets not pretend he’s just continued the status quo.

I fear the momentum is with Burnley slightly at the moment. Leeds dropping points away and Sheff United are scrambling wins by the odd goal.

None compared to Rovers. But unlocking that potential isn’t worth the hassle of trying to get it off Venkys because, as you say,they won’t entertain it. You’d have to have really set your heart or mind on Rovers to pursue it. A more casual potential owner would just wait for an easier acquisition to come up, even if they were like the named clubs above.

I still stand by my gut feeling I said at the time that Wagner would have been far greater than Ismael. I’m even starting to wonder about Karanka now in comparison.

You would only get fan base all on the same page if we were on a proper downward spiral (relegated) AND there was a viable and interested party going public about wanting to buy us. But that second part is highly unlikely. Most people who buy clubs aren’t fans so why go to the impossible effort of trying to prise Rovers away when an Oxford or a Luton might become available far easier and cheaper.

We did that against Wolves a few years back. Decent numbers took part and stayed on the concourse for 18 minutes. Pointless. Venkys don’t give a shit. Only full on boycotts would raise any eyebrows but you simply won’t get the numbers to do it.

I'm not writing him off (although I suspect he will fail spectacularly), I'm saying that his formation change to 3 at the back is perplexing and clearly hasn't worked, and is bizarre change to a team that had just won 3 from 5, regardless of whether some of those were in a "weird" week. The "excuse" that we were in free-fall before he came in simply isn't true. 3 wins from 5. Also some performances during that 14 game spell (Burnley, Leeds and Sunderland) might not have brought victories were miles better than the last weeks fayre.

Won 3 of the previous 5 before he came in. You are saying two of them were because they were 'galvanised' by Lowe. Why weren't they galvanised by Ismael ?