Should that be the case then I'm sure Mowbray, being the honest and transparent man that we are told repeatedly he is, will enlighten us on why we've been able to spend £5m on a striker - despite already having quite a few on the books - but were unable to spend anything on the one area of the pitch that desperately needed it and that he assured us would be addressed. "Defensively we're alright" doesn't cut it.

"Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field"... why does that sentence not surprise me in the slightest?

Successful clubs get it done Chaddy. Losers make excuses, winners make it happen. We need a new mentality at the club if we really want to push on.

A lot of people still wanted to believe that Mowbray would ultimately make the right call. I expected the line up he presented, bar Gallagher/Graham, but being prepared didn't mean I was any less angry when it was confirmed. I genuinely would rather have seen Nyambe/Lenihan/Tosin/Wheelie Bin as our defensive lineup. Couldn't have been much worse than what we got.

For me the line up on Saturday was far more infuriating than the result. I can accept an opening day loss - the first day of the season always throws up some strange results. Granted with us it's never a win, but that's another story. But to see Bennett at RB, Mulgrew at CB, Bell at LB and 35 year old Downing on the wing whilst the likes of Nyambe, Brereton, Graham and especially Rothwell sit on the bench was just incredibly disappointing and killed a lot of the good feeling on here before the match had even kicked off.

Thanks, that pretty much answers my question. Although I hope Tony doesn't look at that scenario and think "if Corry and Richie had been on the pitch, that never would have happened".

It's strange to me how in the build up to the first goal one of the Charlton players has acres of free space in the middle of the pitch to run directly towards our penalty area. Where exactly have our central midfielders disappeared to at that point? Bennett is literally the only one anywhere near the guy, and he's a right back. Why has our shape completely dissolved?

Thanks, although I'm kind of sad it's mostly just discussing ways the current manager annoys me ? I'd genuinely love to have a pint with Mowbray and get some insight into his thought process, particularly with the playing strikers on the wings method. Although I get the feeling the conversation would ultimately end with "you're really overthinking this, Tony".

What's funny is that when Downing was signed I distinctly remember the concensus being that he would not be playing on the wing, that he'd be in the middle as that was where Boro were playing him, etc. Lo and behold first game of the season Downing is indeed playing on the wing. Whilst I believe that he should largely be used as an impact substitute (or LB if we don't bring anybody in by Thursday, he must be better than Bell) I get the feeling Tony has brought him here under the impression he will be a first teamer. If so then it will inevitably be at the expense of one of our younger players which is not what I want to see.

I may not agree with everything you say mate, but with explanation I at least understand and respect where you're coming from. I'd much prefer to see this kind of back and forth than insults and discussion being shut down due to hiding posts, etc. It would be boring if we all had the same viewpoint and the more debate the better, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure almost all of us with severe doubts over TM hopes he proves us wrong, as that will only benefit Rovers long term. I'll be more than happy to hold my hand up at the end of the season if we've done well and say I was wrong - it wouldn't be the first time! - but without defensive reinforcements I fear Mowbray may not make it that far. Let's see what the next few days bring.

People seem to forget sometimes that Travis only became a regular in January - literally weeks before Mowbray was talking about loaning him out. Fortunately for us Travis came in for Smallwood - who I think was suspended? - and made such a difference that Tony had no choice but to do a u-turn. Another case of his hand being forced rather than naturally bringing a player through and dropping a favourite through poor form. Now credit where it is due, Mowbray kept Travis in the team even when Smallwood was available for selection again, but it would have been very difficult for him to justify doing anything else. Rothwell for me is the worst of the lot. He must be wondering what else he has to do to get a shot here. Showed glimpses of talent in his appearances before April last season, then FINALLY gets a run in the team for the last few matches of the campaign and is superb, giving us a new dimension and helping us go on a run of wins which previously seemed unimaginable. First match of this season rolls around and he's replaced by 35 year old Stewart Downing. If I was Rothwell I would be mightily peeved about this. How can you see this as anything other than stunting the development of a young prospect in favour of an extremely short-term solution? We can only hope that Rothwell is back in the team ASAP and Charlton was an aberration. It will reflect really badly on Mowbray otherwise imo, and Rothwell would be well within his rights to demand a transfer elsewhere.

I agree that now isn't the time to act, but I do think Mowbray overthinks things and you can break some things down to some fairly simple points. Is Bennett a good right back? No. I don't think anybody can really argue that he is. He's adequete at best and very poor at worst. He costs us points in that position. Therefore going into the transfer window we either consider Nyambe good enough to be first choice RB with Bennett and JRC acting as backup, or we don't. If we don't then we need to bring somebody in to do the job. Yes, it's easy for me to say 'just bring someone in', but that's just what you have to do. You've got to get on with it, or be prepared for criticism if you fail to address that problem and it affects results going forward. That's how it works - the manager ultimately carries the can, whether you perceive it to be fair or not. Fear of the opposition comes from us playing like underdogs in most matches and I think that's demonstratable by the fact we've rarely dominated teams under Mowbray's tenure. Whether a team is low or high in the table we tend to have fairly even games, suggesting we don't ever plan to impose ourselves. That may just be Mowbray's preferred style, and if so then OK, but you aren't going to get into the top six playing like that. I'd agree that all managers have favourites, but I'm sorry, when you come out and publicly slam young players whilst completely ignoring the mistakes made by your senior favourites, it will be highlighted. Mowbray's criticism of Travis, Rothwell and Raya last season was bang out of order imo, especially when he has never and probably will never name the likes of Bennett or Mulgrew. I disagree with slating players in public to begin with, but the transparent nature of who he targets really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. When all is said and done, nobody (well, almost nobody, there are exceptions) will 100% agree with what a manager does. We will all have our criticisms, whether it's tactics, post-match interviews, transfers, staff recruitment, or whatever else. I'm unfortunately at a point where I am disagreeing with more of Mowbray's decisions than I agree with, and when it gets to that point I personally consider it time for a change. The timing of the change is important too, though, and as I said above that time isn't right now. It may be soon though. We need a lot in the last few days of the window imo.

Technically I'd say our troubles started in November when we were spanked by Preston and handily beaten by Wigan. After that we went on a very poor run of conceding numerous late goals and throwing away points. We had a kind run of fixtures in January which we got maximum points from - but you have to consider it a blip when we then lost nine of the next eleven games, largely continuing the terrible run of form that began in November. As I mentioned in a previous post, we lurched from very bad to very good form last season. It was an unstable nine months which left everybody feeling a little unsure, but Mowbray's comments suggesting he understood our concerns and would act on them quelled the growing unease. Then the transfer window and yesterday happened, and it feels like all the problems from last season are back for another nine months. I agree that there is no point in removing him now. He's had a transfer window and will have time to show that he does have this situation under control. I'm not confident but all we can do now is wait and see what transpires. If the same mistakes keep happening and we keep dropping points due to poor defending then harsh criticism must be expected though.

At the end of the day mate you either think Mowbray is doing a decent job, or you don't. I totally understand the viewpoint that Mowbray is doing well with what he has. I may not agree with it, but I do get it. Personally, my viewpoint that Mowbray is not doing such a good job and is failing to rectify our problems. At the same time I'm aware of the restrictions and pitfalls that come with working for Venky's, and the very real possibility that we could end up with someone significantly worse than TM if he goes. I appreciate what Mowbray is trying to do for the club and I think he has a lot of good ideas - unfortunately I'm not sure he's able or willing to implement them, for whatever reason. I strongly believe he's taken us as far as he can and that we will start to regress the longer he stays. We all want Mowbray to do well, because if he does well then so does the club. I just don't see any evidence that he as a manager is learning from his mistakes. As far as Mowbray is concerned, I feel like very little has changed since our League 1 campaign. If he can't push beyond his fear of the opposition and fear of change then regrettably we will need to find someone else to move us forward. It's just a shame that our idiot owners are the ones in charge of that, because it's practically guaranteed they will fuck it up.

If people think TM did a good job last season then I can understand them thinking that wanting Mowbray out is nonsense. I get it. But there is an equally valid viewpoint within many that last season had some very concerning red flags that have not been addressed by the manager - who himself publicly agreed with the fans criticisms yet has done little to nothing in terms of action. So the idea that Mowbray has lost his way, compounded by Saturday's team selection and result feeling like it came straight from Feb-Apr last season - is a fair one as well, imo. I think if the transfer window shuts and we have no further defensive improvements then TM is sunk and we are in trouble. The next few days are absolutely critical.

In this thread though? I think what you're perceiving as "reactionary tosh" is pent up frustration from a poor second half of last season combined with an underwhelming, to say the least, transfer window. The third in a row under Mowbray. Concerns were brewing throughout July that we didn't appear to have a plan and TM was losing control of the situation, and despite many stating defenders would arrive, other than Tosin they haven't. Then the first game of the season rolls around and we have Bennett at right back, Mulgrew at centre back, Bell at left back, and Rothwell on the bench. Is it any wonder that frustration reached tipping point? It's far too simplistic to consider this a reaction to one game. For the vast majorty of people I think it goes way beyond that.

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time.

To be honest it's all feeling a bit Souness at the moment. A manager who got us promoted when we were at a low point in our history, but ultimately began dragging us back down due to baffling team selections, playing favourites and poor transfers. Mowbray is obviously a very different person to Souness but has fallen into that same rut. There were a lot less people defending Souey at the time though!

We revelled in it back in the day. The bully boys. You might not like how we play, but good luck taking any points from us, especially at Ewood. This lot wouldn't say boo to a goose. A side very much built in the image of the manager. Nice lads, but other than possibly Johnson not a leader amongst them.

Two reasons I think. Firstly he's the only proper "target man" striker we've had during his time here, with the possible exception of Gallagher who did start up top today. We played the most long balls in the division last season I believe, might have been joint with Ipswich, but it makes sense to have a target man up there. In fact it's the only way we could make that system work. Secondly I think the link-up between Dack and Graham has been so solid that you can't really seperate them. He tried today and the result was Dack being totally ineffectual. Dack is such an important player for our team that having somebody up top he can link with is, again, crucial to the way we play. Why he's persisted in bringing strikers to play on the wing I cannot fathom. I think Downing might be the first proper wide man, other than Chapman, that he's brought in to actually play wide. Chapman however is eternally unfit, so, we end up with strikers on the wing again. It's just poor recruitment. I really don't understand what he's trying to do. Brereton will surely end up out on the wing this season again, if and when he plays, as he's got Gallagher, Graham and possibly Dack to get past before he'd be in a position to play as a striker. I think Bennett has been unfairly targeted at times, but not today. He was fucking dreadful. Should just keep his head down and count himself lucky he's one of the manager's favourites, because at most clubs today's performance would see him dropped for a long time.

Striker and Winger are interchangable terms from Mowbray's perspective to be fair. Other than Graham I think literally every striker we've had has played on the wing at some point, usually primarily. Antonsson, Samuel, Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong... it's seriously bizarre.

An interesting read six months later. "Targeting 25-28 year old men"... Johnson - 32 Downing - 35 Gallagher - 23 Tosin - 21 Walton - 23 Nope. I just wish he'd stick to his word. I'd really like for a supporter to do a podcast interview or something with him, discuss these things he's said and ask what has changed. He may still come out with nonsense but right now it just feels like he's continually lying about doing things, then failing to deliver and saying it's okay.

It's not the same as losing to Southend. We were confident that we had a squad capable of competing in that division, so losing to them on the opening day was disappointing for a completely different reason. Today's disappointment is down to our terrible defence not being rectified for the entire summer, despite the manager promising to do so at the end of last season, and it costing us three points today. There is justifiably a very real fear that this will continue for the rest of the campaign if something isn't done in the next few days.

Can't imagine we're after another striker. It would make zero sense. Our midfield and attacking options now are fine. It's defence that desperately, desperately needs upgrading. I can't see us bringing in personnel in any other positions, it would be so grossly negligent that you would have to start questioning what in the world is going on.

Also beat Fulham and judging by the highlights could have put four or five past them. 1-0, clean sheet, something we rarely see. We can't seriously suggest we can't compete with Barnsley's scouting network and profile? It's all excuses. This transfer window has been a failure so far and we don't have long to rectify it.