How many times has Dolan come on as an impact sub and done well, only to start the next few games and be completely ineffectual? Lad isn't a 90 minute player unfortunately. The way we used him today was exactly how he needs to be used.

You can't lose these kinds of games at home and expect anything from the season. We've looked like absolute dross so many times this season already. It really is a huge concern. I would genuinely take 21st right now if it was offered.

Gentle reminder lads, debating opinions is OK, personal insults are not. Let's keep it civil.

Do have some decent songs tbf.

Great to put an end to our losing streak with a clean sheet. Onwards.

My view is that neither his Fulham or Bournemouth sides were hugely impressive, despite having a huge advantage in terms of parachute payments and overall budget. Kind of like us in L1 under Mowbray - we rarely looked like a great side, but we got promoted comfortably because we simply had significantly better players than basically every club in that division. Even Lampard, who is bombing hard at Everton, did OK with Chelsea. Gerrard was decent at Rangers but is struggling now at Villa. I agree that it's difficult to judge, but that's just my general feelings about Parker. I think there may be a decent manager there somewhere, but he needs to challenge himself at a club with lesser resources to really test his mettle. I'm not convinced by him, but then ultimately my opinion means very little, so I'm really just vomiting my general thoughts into the void.

I'll amalgamate my posts from the Championship thread... Some of the Sunderland supporters' reactions are definitely way OTT. I get that he's not the most exciting appointment, but from some of the comments you'd think they were about to appoint Steve Kean. There are some misguided comments on there regarding TM playing a 'good style of football' though. I've seen that a few times and whatever they're basing it off, it isn't the time he had with us. Our football was largely attritional under Mowbray, and during the period he was obsessed with possession it was downright horrible to watch. We did have some good performances under Mowbray, but they tended to be in isolation rather than over a sustained period of time. I find it hard to even really describe how we played under him, but I wouldn't overall describe it as good to watch. Ultimately however I only cared about results, and in some seasons (L1 season, first season back in the Championship) it was good enough regardless of how we played. In other seasons it became an added frustration as the death spirals, tinkering and overcomplication repeatedly torpedo'd our chances of getting into the playoffs. Obviously with last season being the worst, considering where we were and where we ended up. Even though it was technically our highest placed finish under him, the last half of the season in many ways made it feel like the lowest. I'd say the closest we had to consistency was from around October in our League 1 season to the end of our first season back in the Championship. Still not sure what you'd call our style during that period, honestly, but it was somewhat settled for the most part. I think I remember a statistic showing we played the most long balls, or joint most, during our first season back in the Championship, but it wasn't like it was under Big Sam. Anyway, after that he tried to evolve our style and yeah, from that point it became confusing and inconsistent. He wanted to do the possession based style for a while, but it didn't work. The stats from that season (19/20, I think?) showed that we actually did far better in the games where we had less possession. Our burst of good form during the 21/22 season that got us to second was basically a low possession, counter-attacking style, but once teams cottoned on to what we were doing we had no effective plan B. Coupled with BBD's injury we lost all semblance of style and just faded away. Mowbray isn't a terrible manager by any stretch, but he's also one that has repeatedly shown not to learn from his mistakes. He's carried the same positives and the same negatives to essentially every club he's been at. Sunderland can expect some good runs, some horrific runs, some baffling tactical selections, bizarre soundbytes and periods of satisfaction followed by equally long periods of immense frustration. There will always be debate on here about how much TM was hamstrung by the owners and the way they ran the club, so I guess we'll see how many of the same patterns develop at Sunderland, which may give an indication.

Put it this way, I wouldn't have been thrilled if he somehow ended up as our manager. Maybe you would, but without the biggest budget in the division I don't think he'd get close to the playoffs let alone promotion.

Parker wasn't going to be able to buy his way out of being a bang average manager, as he did in his Championship seasons with Fulham and Bournemouth, so angled to get sacked after the 9-0 before his reputation was completely destroyed. Mission accomplished.

Mowbray isn't a terrible manager by any stretch, but he's also one that has repeatedly shown not to learn from his mistakes. He's carried the same positives and the same negatives to essentially every club he's been at. Sunderland can expect some good runs, some horrific runs, some baffling tactical selections, bizarre soundbytes and periods of satisfaction followed by equally long periods of immense frustration. Hopefully when we play them it'll be during a death spiral.

To be fair it's worth remembering we spent £7m on him in the first place, add in wages and £5m reinvestment isn't as unreasonable as it sounds.

The more worrying aspect of our defeats is that it reads 0 goals scored and 7 conceded. I know general concesus is that stats are evil, but even during our first three wins we were outperforming our xG and the last three games suggest that this wasn't a meaningless statistic. Being unable to score and unable to defend is a recipe for total disaster. We're also likely to lose last season's top scorer, and relying on Vale or Gallagher to step up is a huge risk. Dack may chip in with a few, if he can get back up to speed, but we need far more than that. A goalscorer is an absolute priority. If we sell BBD without bringing in a very good replacement I fear we really are in for a long, tough season. There just aren't enough goalscorers in the team.

I'd say the closest we had to consistency was from around October in our League 1 season to the end of our first season back in the Championship. Still not sure what you'd call our style during that period, honestly, but it was somewhat settled for the most part. I think I remember a statistic showing we played the most long balls, or joint most, during our first season back in the Championship, but it wasn't like it was under Big Sam. Anyway, after that he tried to evolve our style and yeah, from that point it became confusing and inconsistent. He wanted to do the possession based style for a while, but it didn't work. The stats from that season (19/20, I think?) showed that we actually did far better in the games where we had less possession. Our burst of good form during the 21/22 season that got us to second was basically a low possession, counter-attacking style, but once teams cottoned on to what we were doing we had no effective plan B. Coupled with BBD's injury we lost all semblance of style and just faded away.

I mean, some of their supporters' reactions are definitely way OTT. I get that he's not the most exciting appointment, but from some of the comments you'd think they were about to appoint Steve Kean. There are some misguided comments on there regarding TM playing a 'good style of football' though. I've seen that a few times and whatever they're basing it off, it isn't the time he had with us. Our football was largely attritional under Mowbray, and during the period he was obsessed with possession it was downright horrible to watch. We did have some good performances under Mowbray, but they tended to be in isolation rather than over a sustained period of time. I find it hard to even really describe how we played under him, but I wouldn't overall describe it as good to watch. Ultimately however I only cared about results, and in some seasons (L1 season, first season back in the Championship) it was good enough regardless of how we played. In other seasons it became an added frustration as the death spirals, tinkering and overcomplication repeatedly torpedo'd our chances of getting into the playoffs. Obviously with last season being the worst, considering where we were and where we ended up. Even though it was technically our highest placed finish under him, the last half of the season in many ways made it feel like the lowest.

I don't think Mowbray would be a disastrous appointment for them. He can be infuriating but I'd expect him to keep them up comfortably enough. What's left behind once he goes is another question, as we're finding out now.

When people start trotting out the hard luck stories you know the club's in trouble. Worrying times. Huge few days ahead.

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/mowbray-just-announced.1587674/ Gone down about as well as you might expect.

Yeah we are in huge trouble. Look worse than Coyle's no hopers. Having JRC on the pitch is like being down to 10 and playing against 12.

Doesn't seem like TM would be the most popular choice...

The bubble well and truly seems to have burst for Liverpool. I know they have injuries but what an unbelievably poor start to the season for them. United aren't beating them through quality, but just through sheer effort and willingness to battle for everything. The total opposite to their first two games! Maguire and Shaw likely to be warming the bench for a while, one would think.

Tbf the Armstrong departure would have been a disaster if Brereton hadn't stepped up, as we didn't replace him. Not sure there's anybody waiting in the wings now to bail us out if BBD is sold.

Six points thrown in the bin due to glacial recruitment. How many more?

So much for seeing a reaction to the midweek result.

It was the same last season when the death spiral started. 'we're still 2nd... 3rd... 4th... 5th... 6th... a point outside the playoffs...' Ignoring early warning signs is what we've been doing for years. It doesn't really matter if fans bury their heads in the sand over it, but I really hope this management team aren't so naive/unambitious as to accept the level of performance we saw last night as anything other than unacceptable and in need of serious review.

If we had been terrible all season I'd be far less frustrated by what I just witnessed. We haven't been amazing but we've been competitive and solid enough in our first three league matches - enough so that I had no worries about tonight and was, stupidly, actually confident for once. I've been really proud of how the lads had been performing up until this point, but this was right back to the bad old days in terms of attitude and performance. Just so deflating after what had been a fantastic start. Still, my melancholy aside, it will be interesting to see how JDT handles this one. It's a good test for him and it's come early in his tenure. The only other positive is that it may jolt our recruitment team into action.