JHRover

Who was the last senior player to sign up to a long term deal? I recall in the months after promotion there was a spate of renewals including Mulgrew, Bennett, Smallwood and Evans. I think Travis maybe since then but expect he was on a low level deal not befitting of his place in the side and that needed sorting. Anyone else? I can't think of any through the whole of 2019 or 2020. Bizarre really. I wonder if it is complacency or policy not to do it? The pandemic is just an excuse. Hasnt stopped others from doing new deals nor did it stop us committing substantial amounts to deals and loans over the summer.

I agree it is very worrying What concerns me also is that even pre pandemic there had been very little by way of senior players being tied down to long term contracts. To suggest that everything was hunky dory on that front before the pandemic is nonsense. If we had been on the ball with things then assets the calibre of Dack, Armstrong and Nyambe would all have had new terms this last year, months before the pandemic arrived and Dack got injured. Another concern which Mowbray needs challenging on is how he said over the summer window that he had factored in contract extensions to his budget and had those costs in mind when deciding how to approach his transfer targets. If true that suggests that he has approached his entire recruitment strategy with these contract extensions in mind. To then turn around in December, a few weeks before the January window, and blame the pandemic and the hit to income for not renewing those deals I think is a complete cop out. We are back into Venky paradox territory here. We supposedly have incredibly wealthy owners happy to bankroll substantial losses for little in return yet they don't have the gumption, foresight or sense to recognise the cost implications of losing these players for nothing. Its going to come back to bite them, and us, on the arse big style. Like I say, if that's the gamble they want to take, and they want to run the risk of missing out on tens of millions in transfer fees, then so be it. Its them out of pocket, not me. But when their stooge Waggott comes along every few months whinging about no money and FFP problems then I will question what the hell we are playing at allowing contracts of prized assets to run down. I will also question the entire point of the academy and investing in youth policy. Why bother with the initial investment, time, energy and perseverance with young players only to now get to a stage where they are doing the business in the first team and we risk flushing that investment down the toilet and get nothing back for it. To say their first business was selling Phil Jones for big money you'd have expected this lesson to have been learned by now.

Interesting that Middlesbrough and Brentford to name two have successfully concluded multiple contracts with first team players during the pandemic. Excuse after excuse. A month from now it will be more of the same. The pandemic didn't stop him from giving contracts to Pears and Downing. Nor will it stop rivals from coming sniffing for players in January.

The issue with Nyambe is that if we had managed the situation proactively and properly then we would have him tied down to a 2-4 year contract right now. The conversation about selling him then becomes radically different, because we would stand to rake in some decent cash which could arguably be used to reinvest elsewhere. At that point we could discuss the financial and sporting merits of offloading him. As it stands we will be forced to sell him for no reason other than we will be desperate to avoid him leaving on a free transfer come the summer. Footballing decisions go out of the window and whatever small fee we get will be nigh on impossible to get better than him for. It is a failure of strategy because it is likely to cost the club several million pounds in a transfer fee. We have allowed this situation to creep up on us just like we have with JRC, Rothwell and Dack. The owners should be sorting this out yet they seem quite relaxed about the situation. Then again they let Josh King and Ben Marshall do similar so must not be bothered about it. I just hope people remember these things when we get the FFP excuses and sob stories from Waggott about having no money.

Can't happen. Red or nothing. The fact he was already on a yellow shouldn't be any relevance to the appeal whatsoever. Shouldn't being the key word.

Looks like we have appealed Lenihan's red card and will discover today if he is available for tomorrow. Well done to Rovers for doing so. Just hope we've put together some good footage for the appeal rather than a half hearted attempt.

The point about the possibility of the club having 1 year options on players isn't really much of a reassurance. Players know when clubs are serious about keeping them. They will expect to feel wanted and expect the club to be making serious efforts to tie them down long term e.g. 3-5 year contracts. The 1 year option is little more than a safety net to be used in emergency to avoid a player walking for nothing. Said player is likely to sulk and be unhappy about the situation and spend a year waiting for his move. It is short termism and risky. If it isn't sorted quickly these guys will be off for next to nothing. Then Waggott will have to put another £50 on season tickets to cover the shortfall

All of what you put forward on Mowbray here may well be true. But I don't judge a manager on how players develop or what their theoretical transfer values are. I judge a manager first on results and league positions. Mowbray has a lot of work to do to persuade me that he is capable of hauling us to 6th or higher never mind keep us there. For me this season so far has been a rehash of previous years. Some nice football, impressive results, yet inconsistencies, perennial mid table position, always a few results away from getting there. This is Mowbray's finished product and vision. I'm not sure why he deserves longer at it if we don't deliver this season. If your vision for the club is to be the nearly men, develop players and play nice football then we can stick at it but I want to see evidence that we are making serious progress towards promotion. I look at O'Neill at Stoke as an example of how a top manager operates and expect Hughton will do similar for Forest next season.

I don't agree. I don't remember myself or anyone seriously suggesting that Hughton would transform Forest from the bottom 3 to top 6 within a season. I thought it was a sensible appointment and still do, I think he will keep them up with distance to spare and if given a fair crack at it will have them in the top 6 next season. The question is whether the unpredictable people at Forest will allow him that. I don't think he is overestimated. His accomplishments at this level with 3 different clubs and no blemish on his CV suggests he is a very effective manager at this level. Is Mowbray under estimated? Maybe. I think most agree he has done well here but the elephant in the room is our inability to get any higher than 7th or 8th before slipping back again. Only when he breaks through that ceiling and looks like keeping us there for more than an odd weekend will those doubts begin to disappear. Styles of play are completely irrelevant. A good manager finds a way to win and finish at the top of the league rather than sticking to principles and ending up mid table. I think we overlook how good Mowbray has had it here. Warnock and Hughton are mere months into inheriting shambolic situations at their clubs and have had to firefight from the off. Mowbray is approaching 4 years here and has had free reign over every aspect of the club and substantial backing throughout. To be one point above Warnock's Boro side to me isn't a cause to put the bunting and balloons out. It says more about how well Warnock has sorted them out. The pressure should be on here. If Mowbray isn't going to break the glass ceiling now then when? Do we just persist until he hopefully does it one day or decide that after 3 attempts it isnt going to happen?

Pretty sure they can't do that. They can't not overturn a red on the basis it would have been a second yellow. They have to look at the incident in isolation and consider if the 'offence' (I'm not even sure it was that) was worthy of a straight red card. Yellow doesn't come into the equation. It's either a red or nothing. I will be very disappointed if Rovers don't even bother to appeal. If that appeal fails then so be it but given the situation we are in with people missing and the debatable nature of the incident it has to at least be appealed and cannot be suggested that it is frivolous.

I think it is a bit early for that sort of talk. Mowbray is doing well at the moment but he has had time and resources here that neither Warnock or Hughton have had close to at their current clubs. Warnock has turned Boro from relegation candidates to play off chasers in one transfer window without spending much. Hughton been at Forest a matter of a couple of months and has inherited a shambles. If he is given time he will have Forest up there but for now they're a mess and need to get enough together to survive. If I was a gambling man I'd put money on either Forest or Boro getting in the play-offs before Rovers do.

We should be at an advantage to the likes of Burnley. Bigger club, a history of PL football to call upon, already have the training ground, academy, stadium whereas they didn't when they went up. Dare I say it we also have owners with the resources to keep us up whereas they never have had.

This is how the game goes. Based on three things where people cobble it together and before anything happens West Ham are interested and it spreads like wildfire. West Ham are short up front = they will be in the market for a goalscorer. Some 'ITK' bloke runs a story suggesting they might be having a look at him. Moyes has a recent history for going after Championship players having signed Benrahma from Brentford, Hugill from Preston and Jarod Bowen from Hull in the last couple of years. Roll all those things into one and combine with the gossip column Nixon types and we're in for a long December and January. I give it a fortnight before the buffoons at the Lancashire Telegraph are rolling with this 'story' and then everyone takes it as gospel that he's off to West Ham. Sadly as said above we might have already missed the boat through being too slow on this one. No club in their right minds would allow a player like Armstrong to be entering the final 18 months of his deal - he should have been signed up to a 4-5 year bumper deal at the start of the year and then we could relax knowing we have £25 million coming our way if anyone wants him. Now it will be very different. Can apply the same issue to Nyambe, Dack, Rankin Costello albeit on a smaller scale.

Suppose it stops hundreds of folk from Blackburn and Accy jumping on a bus down to Clitheroe or Whalley to hit the pubs.

Brentford won 3, drawn 3 and lost 1 of their league games at home this season. That defeat was a collapse against Preston having been 2-0 up. Having said that their wins have come against QPR, Coventry and Huddersfield with draws v Middlesbrough, Norwich and Swansea which tends to suggest they struggle against the better sides but find enough to dispatch the weaker ones. All things done I'll be satisfied with a point here but really if we mean serious business above play off flirtation we need to get some wins against tough teams.

I've bought a pack for the novelty. Bit of a con and rip off but don't mind as a one off.

Five or more points from the next 9 I'd be delighted with. 3 or 4 points would probably see us through the tough block intact and if we were to draw all 3 it would keep confidence flowing, but wouldn't be ideal as teams will pull away from us if we do that. Certainly need to be looking to win the home games no matter who the opposition - Luton have just shown that Norwich are very much beatable.

We're in 'the zone' now. Good run, momentum, positivity building and within striking distance of the top 6 and even top 2. I hope, and pray, that it isn't another case of hitting the glass ceiling before a death spiral over 3-4 games sends us dropping down the division again. We need to see something now to believe this isn't just like the last 2 seasons where as soon as we get into these good positions we are able to kick on and progress rather than it unravel again.

Huge win which I am delighted with. Armstrong worth his weight in gold as I doubt anyone else would have popped up and put that away. In similar fashion to Barnsley I am relieved and very happy to have come through with all 3 points despite arguably not deserving them and at times not looking like getting them. But having match winners in the side is very useful. Millwall perhaps surprised me with their ambition especially in the first half. I suspect they were trying to emulate the Barnsley approach. Second half they were more cagey but we never really looked like converting possession into chances and goals. They are a tough side to beat so credit for that. Rowett fuming on the touchline is always a good indicator that you've done him over. They'll whinge about the referee. I accept that just before their goal Lenihan got very lucky after it struck his arm and late on he was lucky again running around in the penalty area with his hand above his head. But they got away with 2-3 blatant bookable offences including the one which caused Brereton's serious injury so it evens out. I can't accept that the victory was enabled by the referee.

They're a tough nut to crack, no doubt about that. Rowett has done a real good job there at making them hard to beat - the result is that despite lots of draws and not much quality in their squad they are sat just a point behind us. First goal will of course be very important as it usually is with us in games. Get it and I'll be confident, but go behind and we will be in for a frustrating evening. Just hope they've got Cooper missing and that disrupts their organisation.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swansea-city-announce-huge-reduction-19376671 Interesting to see what Swansea are doing. They're already busy sorting out tickets for 2021-22! Sales started on December 1st. Prices determined by the club following discussions with the Supporters Trust. For those people who paid for this season and didn't claim their money back the price for 2021-22 is £99 in any stand. The offer is open to the end of February. Now that is a season ticket policy. Start sales early, a proper financial incentive to buy quickly. Involving the supporters in deciding what is happening. No wailing about FFP and the need to generate more money - their parachute payments end soon and they are struggling financially. So impressive. Compare to the amateurish money-grabbing approach of Waggott - we will be lucky to get prices before August 2021. Think I'll email this to the club - not that it will achieve anything.

Agree. I don't think any manager with true ambitions and expectations of promotion would target the top six or be happy to be in contention for it. Anyone think that Warnock, Wilder, Dyche, Nuno Santo, Bilic were going round telling everyone the top 6 was the ambition? No - they wanted promotion and to do that you have to target the top and be consistently delivering to achieve that. We could finish 3rd on 80 odd points - but lose in the play-offs and the material end result is the same as falling short of the top 6 again. Unfortunately it has become engrained in our support that the top 6 is the Holy Grail, that getting there is some sort of long term aspiration that once achieved will automatically mean promotion or increased prospects of it in seasons to come. It doesn't. What has caused this mythological top 6 aspiration? Well partly the manager telling everyone that it is the aim to be in contention for it, and also because our glass ceiling as a football club over nearly 9 years now has been 8th or 9th in the Championship, meaning any progression above that into 5th or 6th will be hailed as some sort of major step forward. Rival clubs are sitting up to take notice - you don't have the top goalscorer in the division and the best goal difference in the league by mistake or accident - we are a good side that over the first third of the season has been held back through inconsistency and injuries and an inability to dig deep against the other good sides. To be in the thick of mid-table mediocrity at this point is difficult to accept given some of the performances we have had. To be neck and neck with dross like Luton and Preston for me is unacceptable. Mowbray gets credit for assembling that side but that doesn't entitle him to a free pass for the next few years. He has to now transfer that quality into promotion material and face the consequences if he can't. I am worried that we are facing another 'near' season where we threaten all season but never take that step of breaking into the pack and staying there. I hope I am wrong as we need promotion but I worry the bar is already set too low through our patchy start and being told that challenging for the top 6 this season or next is the aim. I hope we don't look back on this season in 3-4 years as the opportunity missed like we did with Bowyer's famous 2nd season.

The referees are so poor at this level you'd be a fool if you didn't try to take advantage of it. It's certainly cost us plenty of times. Need to make it work in our favour too. Preston are another lot who manipulate the officials with regularity.

Looks like Preston missed the memo about Bournemouth being too good and spending loads of money. To say they were awful against us they have won the same number of games. I don't know what that says. Is it the division or is it us?

New contract needs sorting and before January. No point whinging every year about FFP and going with the academy if we are allowing the likes of Nyambe to leave for nothing.