Paul Weller - Fat Pop

Yeah he was. If only he'd signed for us...

Too many sweets there Gav. Not good for you mate 😉 Paul Weller - Song For Alice Coltrane

Captain Sensible - Happy Talking

The Jam - Boy About Town

If you don't think the likes of Micky Speight or Ryan Nelsen were hard men then I don't really know what you're looking for. or what you're watching.

There's nothing 'hard' about booting someone in the gonads when they are lying on the floor, elbowing someone in the face or headbutting an old man in training (all Todd). What has Savage ever done to warrant a 'hard man' tag?

Hard to believe it is 30 years old now, but here is a documentary looking back at the making of Paul Weller's 'Wild Wood' album

Savage wasn't hard. Todd wasn't either. He was just a stupid thug. Apart from those already mentioned, off the top of my head Mickey Speight, Lucas Neill, Ryan Nelsen, Howie Gayle, Nicky Reid, Colin Hendry, Henning Berg, Gael Givet, Alex Baptiste, Jermaine Jones, Michel Salgado, Aaron Mokoena. Proper hard men. We haven't had a proper hard man for a long, long time. Travis? Ha ha ha

To be fair and just playing Devil's advocate for a moment. Yes, England could hardly have been any worse in this tournament but over the course of the last 4 years or so have pulled out some immense performances under pressure, in all formats. I think they had enough credit in the bank to fuck a tournament up.

The Jam - Man in the Corner Shop

Dion and the Belmonts - Why Must I Be a Teenager In Love?

Elvis Costello - My Funny Valentine

Dinah Washington - September In the Rain

I’m one of the lucky 250 people to get a ticket for this. Buzzing!!

Weller recorded a belting cover of this and another couple of Bobby ‘Blue’ Bland songs around the time of Stanley Road. Tina Turner - What’s Love Got to Do With It?

Elvis Presley - Way Down

Elvis Costello and the Attractions - The Angels Wanna Wear My Red Shoes

I’m not personally a massive fan but as a songwriter and multi instrumentalist he was right up there.

Funnily enough a fan wrote most of the lyrics to that song - Weller started up a publishing company called Riot Stories and invited young people to submit poetry and short stories. He liked one by a lad called Paul Drew called That’s Entertainment so much that he borrowed many of the lines from it, as well as the title. What the great Robert Wyatt called making new furniture out of old wood... Weller’s last three or four albums have been as good as anything he’s released - and he’s still having a little pop at his pet hates, more power to him for doing so!

Apart from (it would seem) Neil Young and Paul Weller, who just keep on writing meaningful and relevant music when most people would have retired to enjoy the trappings of their success. A lot always depends on where your ‘entry point’ is in music (hence Noel Gallagher being mentioned in this discussion). My moniker in here maybe belies the fact that I like all sorts of music - different genres and different eras - and that includes most of the folk you have mentioned. It doesn’t however make me myopic when it comes to the music of Weller. You mentioned The Jam but that was just the tip of the iceberg for him and he was only 24 when he ended that band. ‘You Do Something To Me’ and prior to that ‘You’re the Best Thing’, both of them post-The Jam, are the chosen ‘first dance’ of literally thousands of married couples. And from the same bloke that wrote ‘The Eton Rifles’ and ‘Going Underground’. Fast forward to 2023 and he’s still churning them out. Yeah, I think objectively he deserves to be mentioned in the same company as all the greats.

We shall need to agree to disagree on what makes someone one of the best British songwriters. Love the Kinks and the Who but neither of those blokes have written anything of worth in 40 odd years.

I must say I haven’t seen any of that on here mate? Both of them were definitely better songwriters in the Beatles than out of the Beatles (IMHO).

It was a bit more than that Matty. They fed off each other and inspired each other. They would often finish each other’s songs off or make little suggestions (eg A Day In the Life, Hey Jude and plenty of others). But yeah, they didn’t sit down together and compose from scratch in the way that some might imagine they did. Not aimed at you per se but I’m not sure how this all turned into folk defending the Beatles. But to suggest that a man who has been selling shit loads of records and writing classic songs for five decades, since he was just 18 years old, and in many different styles, doesn’t belong in the very upper echelons of British singer/songwriters is a bit odd.

I agree with 99% of what you post on here Tyrone but those last two sentences are nonsense I’m afraid. George Harrison is lucky if he’s in double figures of real top notch songs. The Pele analogy is off as well, there’s no physical reason why a songwriter should be ‘past it’ in that way. Lennon and McCartney fed off each other and once that dynamic was gone they were generally poorer songwriters for it. With only a very few exceptions their solo work generally was not even on a par with Weller’s. Absolutely no dispute with what you say about the Beatles though, but that wasn’t the original poster’s claim. Even ‘oldjamfan’ would say that the Fabs are the best band ever. Edit: There are only two artists who have had number one albums in five separate decades, guess who? And quite how Weller didn’t have one in the 1970s with either All Mod Cons or Setting Sons is beyond me, which would have put him out there on his own.