RevidgeBlue

That's fair as well. Shouldn't have got to that stage in the first place. Mowbray and Waggott shouldn't have mismanaged the finances and the owners should have kept a much closer eye on them and nipped it in the bud at an earlier stage.

Just about sums it up.

Looking at that he's either been pulled up by someone in the Club on making less than complimentary comments about Rothwell given the delicate contract situation or has completely given up hope on him re-signing and is trying to drum up interest in him for January. I want Mowbray out of the Club so badly.

Glad to see you're not making any assumptions then!

If it's true that we are contributing 10k p.w. towards Poveda's wages then by not bringing him in that could have allowed us to offer say Nyambe an extra £5k p.w. for 2 seasons. Would that in itself be enough to get a deal for him over the line? I don't know but the principle still applies. Our priorities are all wrong and over the last few seasons we have wasted, and continue to waste, money like water.

You're easily pleased. If anyone offered money back for him or maybe even around two thirds I'd snap their arm off at the elbow.

1st point, as you say, Venky's own BRFC so in reality there's no practical difference. 2nd point, if the Club were ever sold I would expect that the STC would also be included in the sale free of any incumbrances I.e. any outstanding mortgage. This is the point that the Fans Forum/ Trust/any other interested party need clarification and reassurances on.

You do remember there was a pandemic?

We haven't "sold" it, that's exactly the point. The owners couldn't inject any more money in by any other means without facing sanctions under the daft FFP rules. This way, we avoid any FFP sanctions, the STC remains under Club ownership and isn't transferred to Persimmon Homes or Venus Property Developments or whatever and we should have far more wiggle room in January and next summer now the Armstrong proceeds have been received as well. We'll have to wait and see how well any available funds are utilised of course, personally I wouldn't want Mowbray spending (wasting) a penny of it but at face value it's a win win scenario for me compared to what could have happened. And yes, I know we shouldn't have got to that situation in the first place but once it had already happened, it needed to be resolved.

He may be off the message board for a bit longer due to a bereavement in the family.

👍

They won't have got it back immediately at all they would still have a £13m mortgage to pay back! Club money is their money at the end of the day. And it's not as if we are turning a profit and they're skimming off the proceeds anyway, we're actually making huge losses and they're having to make up the difference to keep us afloat. (Yes I know they've brought it on themselves due to their inadequate running of the Club before everyone starts)

Yep. I'd say two more years would be the sort of timescale I'd have in my own mind. I do believe the desire to effect change is there but if massive improvements on and off the pitch aren't at least well underway by then I'd accept it was unlikely to ever happen.

Hypothetically there's now £16m more leeway to offer said players a bit more. And presumably it would take the V's about 20 years to get the £16m back even at a commercial rate.

I know, suspicion is natural under the circumstances. In the latter instance I'd put it down to sheer incompetence and running the Club in such an amateurish fashion such that newsworthy events can't be released in a managed fashion at the appropriate time by the Club and as potential PR opportunities where appropriate.

To be fair to chaddy I'm sure I remember Mowbray saying in the LT in the past that Venus was in charge of the contract negotiations. That could have changed of course, I don't doubt Mowbray speaks to the player to outline his vision for him at the Club I.e. "You'll have to come in behind everyone else son and learn how to play like Corry and Richie before we'll consider you for a start" 🙂

It's a fair question in the circumstances jim, I believe there is a desire to effect the necessary change, whether or not it actually comes off is another thing entirely of course and we'll have to wait and see.

Yet what they've done is I'm guessing exactly what a legitimate owner would do if they were trying to help their Club circumvent the ludicrous FFP rules. Unless anyone else knows of another way round it. I suppose it boils down to whether you believe the owners' intentions are good or not. After eleven years, and £200 m plus I believe their intentions are genuine. Are we at the top of their list of priorities within their business empire and have they kept a close enough eye on what's gone on here in the past? Possibly not and probably not respectively. Has much of their decision making up to now been awful? Definitely. Can it change? Definitely. Will it change? Who knows, but we'll never have a better financial platform from which to operate IF they can get the operational side of the Club right.

I'm not an accountant either den but the headline losses are there for all to see in the accounts.

Agree with most of your post but substitute Waggott/Mowbray/Venus for "they" in lines 2 and 5 and "the owners" for "them" in line 9.

So you don't believe we were losing approaching £20m p.a. pre pandemic or that that figure would have increased substantially again last season due to the pandemic?

Not really, because if a sale arose they would have to write off the debt technically owned to them by the Club. All the debt is owned to them apart from the Bank overdraft. It wouldn't make any difference to them if the STC was sold at the same time as the rest of the Club's assets or at a later date. Obviously from the Club's point of view going forward it would be essential it was included in the event of any future sale which is what we could do with assurances and clarification on.

The other point arising from this is that the Club's PR is absolutely abysmal and being run into a rank amateur fashion. Both the original Brockhall scheme and this subsequent accounting exercise were only initially uncovered due to the diligence of Eagle eyed fans. I think the two things are completely separate and the owners put a stop to the first scheme and instead substituted the current solution to comply with FFP. If my interpretation is correct though this should have been publicised properly as a positive PR story by the Club well in advance of any fan finding out about it. Same with the relatively recent appointments of Head of Commercial and Head of Integration. Not a word from the Club or in the Press about it. The Club need to help themselves at times. At least the Club is in good hands with Eagle eyed fans like Miller 11 and whoever spotted the initial planning application (Matty) looking out for the Club's interests and flagging up anything outwardly suspicious.

I agree, they HAVE to get it right going forwards.

You're not making any sense den. If Venky's left and wanted to recoup every penny they could, why wouldn't they include it in any sale?