Numerically not maybe but when you're playing Samba upfront on his own at Anfield and get stuffed 4-0 ......

No one used to complain when big Sam clearly used to prioritise games........ I agree with your point about docking PL income but again the problem is it's an extremely subjective issue. What's deemed reasonable for a "big" club to do might not be the same as for a "smaller" club.

I would imagine Wagner knew a fine was very likely but I don't suppose he, the Huddersfield fans or owners will give a flying one if they go up via the play-offs. You're right that if the sanction were to have teeth a points deduction is necessary but the problem is it's a very subjective issue. Where do you draw the line? What if he rested 3-4 players, lost, but claimed he felt they were slightly fatigued and needed a break? You're also opening a very dangerous can of worms. What if say Burton and Sunderland were contesting the play off positions next season? I'm sure the powers that be wouldn't need much encouragement to dock Burton a point or two to ensure they're not damaging the Premier League profile the following season.........

No. That part of my post was in relation to Mikes point that Huddersfield would have rested players no matter who they were playing.

I can't really disagree with either of those points but to play devil's advocate I'd say a ruthless manager with real backbone would do the best for his Club (ie the same as Wagner) and to hell with the consequences. I think on balance it's the approach I'd like our manager to take if we were in that position as well. It's not completely cut and dried, a real horror performance can be a real momentum stopper.

Course they would. Why do they care whether Brighton or Newcastle win the League?

To be fair there is a bit of a difference in resting an entire team against a Club with something to play for as opposed to nothing. Mick McCarthy apparently stated recently well in advance of a game against Rotherham that he was putting some youngsters in because Rotherham were already relegated and it wouldnt affect the integrity of the League. I would hope he wouldnt do it this weekend as Ipswich are in a different position from Huddersfield, they cant go up or down either way. Nevertheless I think everyone should accept at the start of the season that if you're poor enough to be in the relegation spots with a couple of games to go there is a possibility this can happen.

I said a week or two ago I could see a side thinking they were completely safe with 20 mins to go on the last day then bang, a couple of quick goals in different games and they're gone. Let's hope Forest or Brum are this years "Sheffield United".

But who's to say the "strongest" eleven wouldn't have simply gone through the motions anyway to try and protect themselves ahead of the play offs? In theory the ones who actually played should have been busting a gut to force themselves into contention as well. I still think you should expect that if you've got yourselves into this mess after 45 games you've only yourselves to blame and you have to expect that this sort of thing may happen. Other Clubs have the right to manage their squads as they see fit to maximise their own fortunes, not manage it for our benefit. It works both ways as well. The statistical coincidence of us playing Villa as opposed to anyone else on Saturday worked in our favour. No -ones telling me they put a proper shift in as they meandered through the game wondering if their arch rivals would sink even deeper into trouble. Should they be fined as well?

Completely agree. If we were in Huddersfield's boots I'd have hoped we'd do the same. If you're in the relegation positions after 45 games you've only yourselves to blame. No-one else. Huddersfield earned the right to rest players in advance of the play offs by accumulating so many points in the other games and good luck to them.

I expect Forest to win on Sunday, Birmingham not to win and us not to be good enough to win either sending us down. If we can pull off a humongous win then I think it's more likely Brum will slip up than Forest. If the gods are really on our side Forest will lose by 2 more goals than us !

Very bad result for us tonight. That said I dont think it changes things a huge amount as I thought we needed two wins from our last two games to have a chance of staying up even before tonight. All this guff about possibly staying up with two draws is exactly that imo. Guff. Even more reason why we have to abandon our safety first approach in the last two games. If we're to go down at least let's go down having had a go.

If there is a problem with Emnes then that is us sunk imo as the only chance of survival for me is to successfully pair him up with any one of the other strikers. Its clear he is the only member of the squad with a bit of vision and time on the ball capable of bringing others into play and I think we always play much better when he is on the pitch. Strange how perceptions change depending on who the player and/or manager is. This story about Emnes could well be complete cobblers but he and Joao and a few otbers allegedly dont buy into what Mowbray is trying to do and are castigated az villains. The likes of Marshall and Graham don't try or bother to get themselves fit all season for a less popular manager in Coyle and they're hailed as heroes and the manager is in the wrong. To be fair something doesn't seem to be right in the camp though wherever the blame lies. We need wins, yet since Preston the manager has gone ultra defensive, exactly the opposite of what is required and the players don't appear to be putting much of a shift in either.

Very good. That made me laugh. Factually correct as to what is needed as well!

Exactly. People are over-complicating this. Its all very well going on about him only losing 3 games etc and yes maybe that record over the course of a season would have seen us safe. That though has to be tempered by the fact that our form has tailed off dramatically since we had a bit of a new manager bounce and the last seven games have only brought six points. Arguably we rode our luck when we got our couple of early results as well. More importantly though, Mowbray took the job knowing full well we would need 6/7 wins to stay up. We've only got 3 at present and wins are clearly what has been needed over the last few games but neither he nor the players seem to be even trying to get them. Just setting up and trying to nick the odd draw here and there which clearly isnt enough. Bizarrely thanks to Brum's implosion we're still in with the faintest of sniffs of survival, but I can't see us taking the chance which is being handed to us largely down to the managers safety first approach. If we needed a handful of draws to stay up his approach would be understandable. But that's not what is or was needed at all. It doesn't bode well for next season under him whatever happens. Will we still be trying to park the bus and scrape a few draws in League 1 or having a go at trying to accumulate enough points to achieve promotion?

How many efforts on target did we have?

The players shouldnt NEED motivating, obviously, but if there seems to be a problem in that respect the manager has to put it right. After the dreadful display against Barnsley, TM should have ensured we were at least up for it against Bristol City. But didn't.

Can only reiterate my comments after the Bristol City game. If he can't motivate the players for a limited period during a series of must win games at the end of a relegation dog fight, how on earth is he going to be able to lead any sort of assault on League one over a full season? Got a decent reaction when he came in as you would have hoped. Once that wore off extremely disappointing, six points from seven games. Even worse than the bare results is the approach. If we were playing particularly well and being a bit unlucky thats one thing but I don't understand why we're parking the bus and trying to nick a point here and there when we needed wins.

The players have had the wrong mentality for years. I always used to complain they never turned up at Ewood until half time and trailing or level at best under Bowyer.

Will Tomlinson be the next youngster to depart Ewood without pulling on a senior shirt in anger because he hasn't been given a chance? It beggars belief for me he can't get a game whilst apparently the useless Lowe seems undroppable.

If I did that, Wolves would beat us by one knackering up both us and the bet. I'll steer well clear of that one!

We have 15 points from twelve games under Mowbray which at first glance looks very respectable. Unfortunately however ten of those fifteen points came from his first 6 games and the last 6 games have only yielded 5 points which isn't that dissimilar to Coyle who only managed 9 points from his last 12 games in charge. I don't see there being much for us in the last 3 games if I'm being honest but if there is we need to get back to whatever we were doing in Mowbrays first 6 games.

I could see that all ending in tears long term but he's the sort of manager who can probably get a bit of a reaction over 3 games. Plus, they do still have a bit in the Bank. Us v Forest now I think.

9-5 it is then. I'll take that!

Reminiscent of Chris Brown here. No goals v one red card. God knows what possesses people to sign players like that.